The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[brogdale]

FWIW, here is Surrey Politics Professor Simon Usherwood's snap summary of "why this is a really bad idea, on pretty much any level, for everyone":

 

[not a trot]

No; as someone recently said on social media...if we were a banana republic we would, at least have a democratically elected head of state and....bananas!

Maybe we should replace Johnson with a banana, can't do any worse.

 

[brogdale]

Trebles all round for the shorters and forex hedgies!
Win,win.

 

[Raheem]

Maybe we should replace Johnson with a banana, can't do any worse.

Depends. Would the banana conform to EU regulations?

 

[MickiQ]

Maybe we should replace Johnson with a banana, can't do any worse.

And at least an even chance it might do better

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This thread....

 

[platinumsage]

I noticed that, they all seem to come from South America these days, quite liked buying West Indies bananas

The long-running banana wars ended a few years ago. This meant the removal of EU tariffs on South American bananas which were designed to protect former colonial producers in the Caribbean.

 

[existentialist]

This thread....
View attachment 229553

Very oblique.

 

[sleaterkinney]

This thread....
View attachment 229553

Indeed, we haven’t heard from the Lexiteers in a while.

 

[Raheem]

Expect they are busy. All those golden opportunities won't exploit themselves, will they?

 

[philosophical]

I believe those who called themselves lexiteers might have thought of the EU as a huge migrant drowning, capitalist exploiting, Empire of Evil.
They might even be right.
However the brexit vote seems to me to be a good example for lexiteers to consider 'be careful what you wish for'. The brexit vote was basically a forever decision, and I wonder if lexiteers are happy with the way things are going, because to me even with the problems of the EU it kind of had a modifying and diluting effect on the eternally in control Etonocracy.
Now we have a situation, with the 80 seat majority and all, where the narrow ruling class can fuck over everybody without even any slight modifying influence from the EU.
I am pretty sure those from the left who voted brexit will sneer at me for what I write, they are pretty puritanical, but the present reality and future prospects fill me with dread.
I have family in Beijing, Hamburg and Shannon and like to think we are moving towards, inching towards, a joined up world, those who ushered in brexit have reinforced nationalism which I see as a dark force.
I will be long dead before this planet realises that it is just this planet.

 

[Crispy]

Another casualty in the war on the civil service

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www.ft.com

The head of the UK’s government legal department has quit over suggestions that Boris Johnson is trying to row back on parts of last year’s Brexit deal relating to Northern Ireland. Jonathan Jones is the sixth senior Whitehall official to resign this year, amid growing tensions between the prime minister and staff at the top of the civil service. Two officials with knowledge of the situation told the Financial Times that the Treasury solicitor and permanent secretary of the Government Legal Department was leaving his position due to a dispute with Downing Street over its plans to challenge parts of the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

 

[two sheds]

I'm sure Johnson's delighted to see the back of civil servants so he can install his mates and sponsors there. The more doctors want to leave (story yesterday), too, run down the NHS and he'll step in to save us all with more privatization.

Twat

 

[rubbershoes]

I believe those who called themselves lexiteers might have thought of the EU as a huge migrant drowning, capitalist exploiting, Empire of Evil.
They might even be right.
However the brexit vote seems to me to be a good example for lexiteers to consider 'be careful what you wish for'. The brexit vote was basically a forever decision, and I wonder if lexiteers are happy with the way things are going, because to me even with the problems of the EU it kind of had a modifying and diluting effect on the eternally in control Etonocracy.
Now we have a situation, with the 80 seat majority and all, where the narrow ruling class can fuck over everybody without even any slight modifying influence from the EU.
I am pretty sure those from the left who voted brexit will sneer at me for what I write, they are pretty puritanical, but the present reality and future prospects fill me with dread.
I have family in Beijing, Hamburg and Shannon and like to think we are moving towards, inching towards, a joined up world, those who ushered in brexit have reinforced nationalism which I see as a dark force.
I will be long dead before this planet realises that it is just this planet.

But, but..neoliberalism

 

[ska invita]

Heres some speculation while we wait for the carnage: If theres a crash out no deal - far from unlikely - then someone has to enforce the hard border between the North and Ireland - neither EU or the UK will want to be the ones to start it - would remain open in the short term as an anachronism? and then mid/long term? reunification seems the natural conclusion
??

 

[gosub]

I don't think I ever dealt with a lawyer who didn't think his job was to add points of disagreement over which there can be further work for the legal profession.

Personally I'd suggest spending the first 3 weeks of 2021 assuming MRA and then move quickly when the global political landscape becomes clearer

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Heres some speculation while we wait for the carnage: If theres a crash out no deal - far from unlikely - then someone has to enforce the hard border between the North and Ireland - neither EU or the UK will want to be the ones to start it - would remain open in the short term as an anachronism? and then mid/long term? reunification seems the natural conclusion
??

Smaller scale of course but the EU already has small pockets where there is no border with non EU states.

but hopefully the end result will be giving all of the island or Ireland back to the Irish.

 

[gosub]

Smaller scale of course but the EU already has small pockets where there is no border with non EU states.

but hopefully the end result will be giving all of the island or Ireland back to the Irish.

won't solve the whisk(e)y issue

 

[not-bono-ever]

I keep reading this post title as Transubstantiation

Which Adds another perspective I suppose that

 

[Streathamite]

I believe those who called themselves lexiteers might have thought of the EU as a huge migrant drowning, capitalist exploiting, Empire of Evil.
They might even be right.
However the brexit vote seems to me to be a good example for lexiteers to consider 'be careful what you wish for'. The brexit vote was basically a forever decision, and I wonder if lexiteers are happy with the way things are going, because to me even with the problems of the EU it kind of had a modifying and diluting effect on the eternally in control Etonocracy.
Now we have a situation, with the 80 seat majority and all, where the narrow ruling class can fuck over everybody without even any slight modifying influence from the EU.
I am pretty sure those from the left who voted brexit will sneer at me for what I write, they are pretty puritanical, but the present reality and future prospects fill me with dread.
I have family in Beijing, Hamburg and Shannon and like to think we are moving towards, inching towards, a joined up world, those who ushered in brexit have reinforced nationalism which I see as a dark force.
I will be long dead before this planet realises that it is just this planet.

pretty much where I'm coming from. The EU is a 100% capitalist, neoliberal institution, by ut's very design and fom its' very inception - but it has instigated more progressive changes in terms of worker protection, consumer protection, reigning in capitalist abuses and environmental protection, than anyBritish government of my adult lifetime.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I keep reading this post title as Transubstantiation

Which Adds another perspective I suppose that

The implications of this new perspective are truly mind-blowing, and I suspect the negotiators have not considered them. If the Eucharist from a Catholic Church in the republic were to be imported into the north of Ireland how would the customs declaration be filled out? Would this truly be the actual body of Christ, in which case it would have to be considered an unprocessed, uncooked meat product? Or would it be considered as a product of vegetable origin, albeit possibly a problem for those with wheat intolerance? Some may see this as theological hair-splitting, but I and many others are prepared to start a new religious war on this precise issue. (Admittedly I’ve not yet decided whose side to be on).

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The implications of this new perspective are truly mind-blowing, and I suspect the negotiators have not considered them. If the Eucharist from a Catholic Church in the republic were to be imported into the north of Ireland how would the customs declaration be filled out? Would this truly be the actual body of Christ, in which case it would have to be considered an unprocessed, uncooked meat product? Or would it be considered as a product of vegetable origin, albeit possibly a problem for those with wheat intolerance? Some may see this as theological hair-splitting, but I and many others are prepared to start a new religious war on this precise issue. (Admittedly I’ve not yet decided whose side to be on).

I can see an EU blood-of-Christ-lake issue arising soon enough.

 

[philosophical]

There is a lot of talk about customs declarations, checks away from borders, electronic stuff and more.
But in sweaty reality what is supposed to happen when there are seemingly two different systems either side of a border (300+ miles, 200+ crossing points) and people and vehicles traverse back and forth with narry an acknowledgement of a border?
If there is no paperwork to cross reference against anything, if no cameras or what not are there, or if they are they draw a blank, if a person or people move about without carrying ID, and so on...does it all get ignored, the turn a blind eye option or more appropriately optics?
Unless there is the same stuff either side of a border, then because of differences some kind of interception or challenge takes place by those for whom it matters, ergo a hard border. Managed and operated somehow.
Need I add that such sweaty, organic, practical realities on the Irish border still comes up against the GFA and the examples from history.
Seeing as how there is money to be made from conflict, even death, could it be the intention of those connected to the Etonocracy to create conflict and death for profit?
Those bullets won't fire themselves after all!

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Seeing as how there is money to be made from conflict, even death, could it be the intention of those connected to the Etonocracy to create conflict and death for profit?
Those bullets won't fire themselves after all!

How many of the current cabinet went to Eton?

 

[philosophical]

How many of the current cabinet went to Eton?

Dunno, but I apologise if that term is not terribly precise, I intend to point up the narrow general experience of those in charge.
For example Baroness Dido Harding was on the same course at Oxford as David Cameron who is in the same hooray henry Bullenden picture as Boris Johnson and I believe Michael Gove.
For the life of me I can't think of any of the buggers (of both main parties) who grew up and were educated in my borough Lewisham... beyond my local MP Janet Daby, and she went to school in Greenwich.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Dunno, but I apologise if that term is not terribly precise, I intend to point up the narrow general experience of those in charge.
For example Baroness Dido Harding was on the same course at Oxford as David Cameron who is in the same hooray henry Bullenden picture as Boris Johnson and I believe Michael Gove.
For the life of me I can't think of any of the buggers (of both main parties) who grew up and were educated in my borough Lewisham... beyond my local MP Janet Daby, and she went to school in Greenwich.

Johnston went to Eton, not sure any other cabinet member did. Obviously Dido Harding didn't. Many people went to Oxford, such as Howard Marks, Gove did too but wasn't in the Bullingdon Club, Gove was considered too clever to hang around with that lot. Creitinocracy covers what you're after well enough.

 

[philosophical]

Or not from Lewishamocracy.

 

[Smangus]

I'd be up for a Lewishamocracy, being in Catford like.

 

[Pickman's model]

Johnston went to Eton, not sure any other cabinet member did. Obviously Dido Harding didn't. Many people went to Oxford, such as Howard Marks, Gove did too but wasn't in the Bullingdon Club, Gove was considered too clever to hang around with that lot. Creitinocracy covers what you're after well enough.

Kakocracy

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd be up for a Lewishamocracy, being in Catford like.

That'd be the business