The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[krtek a houby]

It has improved the situation because there is less violence, I haven't said it has solved the problem.

I am conflicted because I believe Irish nationalism is valid in order to loosen the grip of perfidious Albion, but I am not a fan of nationalism as such, as in my opinion the concept sails too close to the winds of racism.

Conflicted as I say, but first things first, and the GFA was a decent step in a good direction.

Irish nationalism tends to be socialist and inclusive. Which makes it different to standard nationalism.


Which isn't to say that bigotry isn't rearing it's ugly head from far right nationalists in Ireland but so far, they are on the fringe.

 

[Streathamite]

How has it improved the situation? Has it removed the cause of conflict, the border?

Being optimistic, there's mechanisms there for reunification referenda, and I can now see those happening, and passing, within the hext 10-15 years. Mind, then it becomes a question of whether Unionist paramilitary resistance resurfaces

 

[andysays]

How has it improved the situation? Has it removed the cause of conflict, the border? Many years ago I saw Bernadette McAliskey talk at the London Irish centre. She said any peace deal would have to remove the causes of conflict or else in years to come things would kick off again. And I think they will, in a few years time, unless something's done to prevent that

It's a magic invisible border, as long as you can't see it, you can believe it isn't really there.

Kind of like the emperor's new clothes in reverse.

 

[Sprocket.]

Anyhow things will be sorted now, I just heard Hair Starmer say that a post-Brexit trade deal is in the national interest. Good to know we have such giants of stating the bleeding obvious in parliament.

 

[Pickman's model]

Anyhow things will be sorted now, I just heard Hair Starmer say that a post-Brexit trade deal is in the national interest. Good to know we have such giants of stating the bleeding obvious in parliament.

It's spelt herr

 

[Raheem]

But herr is heard hair here.

 

[ska invita]

have i got this right? i find it all really hard to follow, but seems to me:

they must've had this move all planned before the signing of the Withdrawal Agreement - the evidence being that Johnson was overhead to say when pissed that there'd be no paperwork necessary - no border down the sea effectively - and lo and behold. so the plan then was get the WA through as was, but secretly know that when the time came they'd pull this manoeuvre.
???

if this goes through to a no deal scenario - surely the plan - then the onus will fall onto Ireland and the EU to enforce the border - which they won't dare to do because of the Good Friday Agreement.

seems to work in the short term, though i cant believe that the border anomaly won't be tested and exploited and ultimately lead to reunification

??

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

have i got this right? i find it all really hard to follow, but seems to me:

they must've had this move all planned before the signing of the Withdrawal Agreement - the evidence being that Johnson was overhead to say when pissed that there'd be no paperwork necessary - no border down the sea effectively - and lo and behold. so the plan then was get the WA through as was, but secretly know that when the time came they'd pull this manoeuvre.
???

if this goes through to a no deal scenario - surely the plan - then the onus will fall onto Ireland and the EU to enforce the border - which they won't dare to do because of the Good Friday Agreement.

seems to work in the short term, though i cant believe that the border anomaly won't be tested and exploited and ultimately lead to reunification

??

Either that or Johnson’s telling lies again.

 

[two sheds]

Either that or Johnson’s telling lies again.

is it an either/or?

 

[gosub]

have i got this right? i find it all really hard to follow, but seems to me:

they must've had this move all planned before the signing of the Withdrawal Agreement - the evidence being that Johnson was overhead to say when pissed that there'd be no paperwork necessary - no border down the sea effectively - and lo and behold. so the plan then was get the WA through as was, but secretly know that when the time came they'd pull this manoeuvre.
???

if this goes through to a no deal scenario - surely the plan - then the onus will fall onto Ireland and the EU to enforce the border - which they won't dare to do because of the Good Friday Agreement.

seems to work in the short term, though i cant believe that the border anomaly won't be tested and exploited and ultimately lead to reunification

??

That in part I think will depend on how the EUrozone develops. Full federal with tax harminization would be a cup of cold sick to Dublin.
One things for sure EU's current Covid economic response isn't nearly enough and it was hard enough politically to get what they did

 

[philosophical]

I imagine if there is no agreement then the Republic and the EU will be absent or somehow tokenistic on the EU/UK land border, but dot and comma, and hour and minute, and clause and sub clause, and pound and euro on every other border.
One thing that might exist is an Ealing Comedy scenario, the clue being when a while or so back the UK explored the idea of floating power stations to supply electricity in Northern Ireland.
If the UK tells the EU to fuck off, then it might also lead to lights off!
Because I believe 70% of Northern Ireland Electricity comes in from the Republic!

 

[Streathamite]

if this goes through to a no deal scenario - surely the plan - then the onus will fall onto Ireland and the EU to enforce the border - which they won't dare to do because of the Good Friday Agreement.

seems to work in the short term, though i cant believe that the border anomaly won't be tested and exploited and ultimately lead to reunification

They can't afford not to, either, because to have no hard border between an EU mdember State and a 3rd country will in efect turn every day into xmas day for Europe's criminal classes.
SO: they'll almost certainly sue, and withhold ALL market access from the UK to the EU.
They simply can't afford to let the UK pull this stunt

 

[not-bono-ever]

i said this earlier- this is a way to deflect the blame for the realisation of a hard border back to the EU. Its utterly childish, transparent and bereft of any accepted diplomatic convention, whatever we think of the EU. its not a good look for the Brits doing this and will erode whatever standing we have left in the world. which isn't much TBF.

 

[teqniq]

and not the first time she's said it...

 

[Badgers]

and not the first time she's said it...

"If the U.K. violates that international treaty and Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be absolutely no chance of a U.S.-U.K. trade agreement passing the Congress."

Hopefully that means the grubby cunts stay away from the NHS and our farming/food standards are not ruined?

#clutchingatstraws

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

How much Wensleydale were the US up for taking off our hands?

 

[Badgers]

How much Wensleydale were the US up for taking off our hands?

4kg per year

Also 400 tonnes of it in aerosol cans per week

 

[Pickman's model]

How much Wensleydale were the US up for taking off our hands?

Everything from hawes to aysgarth

 

[ska invita]

and not the first time she's said it...

re that I read a tweet thread that suggested that the illegal Internal Market Bill was also motivated to meet the needs of a US trade bill, as a level internal market within the UK was another prerequisite for a deal (?) - which suggests a US deal is scuppered one way or another. This is all beyond me tbh, can barely understand it

 

[Pickman's model]

Last year Johnson lied to the queen
This year he's making her a criminal

 

[maomao]

What happens if Britain breaks international law then? EU sanctions? I doubt it. It will go down great with the Brexit faithful and makes the EU the bad guy when they have to stick a hard border in Ireland.

 

[Roadkill]

Useful explainer of the Internal Market Bill by the IFG here.

 

[Winot]

What happens if Britain breaks international law then? EU sanctions? I doubt it. It will go down great with the Brexit faithful and makes the EU the bad guy when they have to stick a hard border in Ireland.

Summary here:

 

[magneze]

What can the ECJ do to a non-member?
Does (3) mean invasion?

 

[ska invita]

What can the ECJ do to a non-member?
Does (3) mean invasion?

sanctions i think

 

[Raheem]

What can the ECJ do to a non-member?
Does (3) mean invasion?

They can three-quarters blockade us if they're serious enough.

 

[Winot]

What can the ECJ do to a non-member?
Does (3) mean invasion?

Suspend its obligations under the withdrawal agreement, apparently. In other words, all bets are off.

 

[Winot]

Of course, Cummings would love to go to war with the EU (metaphorically and literally I suspect).

 

[Pickman's model]

How's about we give them Johnson, farage and gove to do with as they will and they let us back in?

 

[MickiQ]

A third of the UK economy is financial services, this is 2020 it can be shut down by unplugging Internet cables. Much of the rest can be closed by locking the gates at Calais.