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Rather bizarre to see a discussion about wine here but here goes.

The underlying geology of a lot of SE england is the same rocks as the NE of france, so the soil is generally broadly similar; with climate being broadly similar, it's possible to grow grapes of the same calibre as those in parts of france. If memory serves me correctly, some champagne houses had bought some land in kent as a hedge in case climate change rendered parts of the champagne region non-viable in the future.

But because the UK's climate is slightly colder and wetter and gets less sunlight, so a given land area will yield less in the way of grapes in the UK than in france. The UK also doesn't have the same economy of scale for wine as france does, and both land and labour are more expensive, so as good as some english wines can be they're almost always going to be considerably more expensive to produce than their french equivalents and there's no way in hell that the relatively tiny output of the south of england is more than a drop in the bucket of UK wine consumption. My favoured italian plonks are liable to get a lot more expensive, but then british beer is as well since so much of that is made with imported grain.

As an aside for people who enjoy his style, Jonathan Meades used the climatological line where grapes cease to become a viable staple (and thus local booze production revolves around cereals and fruit) as the mythical boundary dividing north and south europe in his excellent series "Magnetic North".
 
Just to return to the transition period, from what date are exporters and importers expected to behave in line with whatever is agreed or not agreed in these talks which it seems may end on Sunday?
 
Rather bizarre to see a discussion about wine here but here goes.

The underlying geology of a lot of SE england is the same rocks as the NE of france, so the soil is generally broadly similar; with climate being broadly similar, it's possible to grow grapes of the same calibre as those in parts of france. If memory serves me correctly, some champagne houses had bought some land in kent as a hedge in case climate change rendered parts of the champagne region non-viable in the future.

But because the UK's climate is slightly colder and wetter and gets less sunlight, so a given land area will yield less in the way of grapes in the UK than in france. The UK also doesn't have the same economy of scale for wine as france does, and both land and labour are more expensive, so as good as some english wines can be they're almost always going to be considerably more expensive to produce than their french equivalents and there's no way in hell that the relatively tiny output of the south of england is more than a drop in the bucket of UK wine consumption. My favoured italian plonks are liable to get a lot more expensive, but then british beer is as well since so much of that is made with imported grain.

As an aside for people who enjoy his style, Jonathan Meades used the climatological line where grapes cease to become a viable staple (and thus local booze production revolves around cereals and fruit) as the mythical boundary dividing north and south europe in his excellent series "Magnetic North".


Anyone who knows anything about wine knows that Europe's a dead duck; South America, California, Oregon (similar issues to UK wine, similarly excellent), Australia, New Zealand, all outclass the Euro-plonk. If paying any more than a fiver for a bottle, who bothers with continental wines these days?
 
Anyone who knows anything about wine knows that Europe's a dead duck; South America, California, Oregon (similar issues to UK wine, similarly excellent), Australia, New Zealand, all outclass the Euro-plonk. If paying any more than a fiver for a bottle, who bothers with continental wines these days?
We get ripped off here, both by the duty and inflated prices, but you can buy excellent French wine in France for 5-6 euros.
 
There is going to be chaos ...


tbf, now is a good time for it; no deal means imports/exports will be chaotic, business will suffer, travel could be problematic. But due to the plague business is hardly happening, and neither is travel, so a good time to test the water and see how things can be improved...
 
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What changed?

A decades-long media campaign, combined with yet another period of massive wealth inequality following the 2008 crash, convincing a great many increasingly desperate people that all of this was nothing to do with the UK no longer being a military and industrial superpower and their government being unable to do anything about it, and that instead they'd been stabbed in the back by international finance/immigrants/foreign bureaucrats who hate the UK/heathens/insufficiently patriotic brits/pick your poison. And somehow all of this would be fixed by driving ourselves out of our largest export market.

Anyone who knows anything about wine knows that Europe's a dead duck; South America, California, Oregon (similar issues to UK wine, similarly excellent), Australia, New Zealand, all outclass the Euro-plonk. If paying any more than a fiver for a bottle, who bothers with continental wines these days?

I don't claim to know much about wines, just acquired the taste from various partners. Excellent uncomplicated table wine is available in the france and italy in bulk for very little money (I think the last time I was in italy I got five litres of the local valpollicella for €12); put the same stuff in a bottle and hoof it over the channel and all of a sudden it's two or three times the price. There's certainly excellent wines available from dozens of countries, I just have a penchant for the italian stuff myself. A broad brush I know, but the american stuff (almost all of it californian IIRC) I tend to find over-fussy as well as being surprisingly expensive.
 
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We get ripped off here, both by the duty and inflated prices, but you can buy excellent French wine in France for 5-6 euros.


That is the point though, we can't buy that here, a tenner is the minimum for anything that isn't awful and at that price-point in the UK New World wines win every time.

When raving through France we used to buy 2ltr plastic bottles of wine for Fr11, then €1. Would strip the enamel off your teeth, but get you pissed. Mixing it with coke made it palatable.
 
tbf, now is a good time for it; no deal means imports/exports will be chaotic, business will suffer, travel could be problematic. But due to the plague business is hardly happening, and either is travel, so a good time to test the water and see how things can be improved...
We exported through the year, most businesses I talk to have been continuing as near to normal as they can manage. You are right they will suffer, a complex aspect has just / will just be inserted into what used to be relatively simple trading arrangements.
 
That is the point though, we can't buy that here, a tenner is the minimum for anything that isn't awful and at that price-point in the UK New World wines win every time.

When raving through France we used to buy 2ltr plastic bottles of wine for Fr11, then €1. Would strip the enamel off your teeth, but get you pissed. Mixing it with coke made it palatable.
Yes, that's fair. I drank the Spanish red in plastic bottles when travelling there. Same sort of price and quality. There's a reason the Spanish chill it first. They also mix it with coke.
 
The Maastricht Treaty, which formed the EU, which was not voted on, or the other treaties for that matter. EUrope evolved a hell of a lot since 71, Paying attention to those changes was at the time seen as niche


I noticed, not cos politics, but travel, the passport lane sign kept changing, EC/EEA/EU and so on. That is all I noticed though.
 
In a previous incarnation we used to export 40% of our output, about 20% to the continent and 20% to the USA. The inside EU sales didn't attract extra costs but the US sales did. We found if we classified our products as ABC they attracted quite a high US tariff, but if we classified them as XYZ, which also seemed accurate, they attracted a much reduced cost, much to our importers great happiness as the tariff was payable by them at the point of arrival.
"Under the current no-deal applied trade tariffs, the UK would be forced to trade on World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules, meaning UK farmers would face higher fees on exports such as 48% on lamb and 84% on beef (see graphic below)."

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"Under the current no-deal applied trade tariffs, the UK would be forced to trade on World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules, meaning UK farmers would face higher fees on exports such as 48% on lamb and 84% on beef (see graphic below)."

From that article:

“Clearly the imposition of tariffs on our exports to the EU will most likely lead to a surplus of domestic products on the UK market, while at the same time lower or no tariffs on imports into the UK will put further pressure on domestic producer prices.

“There’s also the risk that without the maintenance of tariff protections we would be in danger of opening up the UK to imported food which would be illegal to be produced here.

“The situation is particularly stark on the island of Ireland where no tariffs will be collected on imports across the land-border. There is no indication that such an arrangement will be reciprocated by the EU and there is nothing in practical terms to stop this trade becoming an open gateway for all EU goods entering the UK duty free.”
 
"Under the current no-deal applied trade tariffs, the UK would be forced to trade on World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules, meaning UK farmers would face higher fees on exports such as 48% on lamb and 84% on beef (see graphic below)."

My understanding is that it is the EU importers who would have to pay the tariffs.
 
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