discokermit
Well-Known Member
how come when you suggest educational meetings for new members you get "no time, comrade! the revolutions tomorrow!"?
although, to be fair, my knowledge is based on the mid nineties.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
although, to be fair, my knowledge is based on the mid nineties.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
the saving grace for the SWP, imo, is a core of dedicated, genuinely knowledgeable and mature cadre who've been sustaining the organisation through torrents of abuse from above for years... and its exactly these people that the CC is on the verge of finally throwing out now
No worries man. I honestly do give some sort of shit, despite my own laziness.
But I also find the utterly counterproductive approach to politics that the SWP seems to have, to be bewildering to say the least.
See the Workers Girder thread for how much the piss is justifiably taken out of fringe Trottery. Freakshow's an accurate word.
When I was a member they had educational meetings every fortnight - they were of course all about hammering home the position of the CC but it was still clearly political education.
Did it work, as far as you remember? Genuine question.
That core cadre have been slavishly following every twist and turn of the CC for years, or they drop out after one twist too many which makes them no core at all.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Er, yes, in current circcumstances. What else?
Not as political education no, and also it didn't seem in my view to convince a new generation of willing paper selling drones - it did work in cementing any new political line for long term core cadre, and helping to furnish them with arguments to use against heretics and unbelievers - which is success of sorts I suppose.
IMO
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
those meetings which should have been branch meetings but where, actually, a broad historical meeting on one of the IS's tropes was hammered out followed by the local organiser 'declaring' what activities (i.e. paper sales) were going to be happening that given week...
there was a very linear political education in the SWP, but by far the best education always came unofficially for me, discussing and debating with 'the old guard' for hours in pubs. the day schools were far too sparse and the topics never related to any of the party's present strategies - any discussion of how any of the 'flavour of the week' national campaigns were building constructively into something more meaningful was always treated with absolute scorn and suspicion. as for the branch meetings/history lessons, i was always too frustrated that we weren't discussing what we, as a branch, were actually planning to do in the local area, voting on positions, discussing the paltry party notes, and delegating individuals to things like conference to appreciate the often botched and inaccurate meetings hosted by the CC's favourite student of the month.
i learnt a lot in the SWP, but i learnt most of it despite the CC not because of them.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
their position on education is complex. on the one hand, everything you say, plus marxism. on the other, you only have to learn the key buzzwords, throw yourself into unquestioning activity and before you know it you're a fulltimer and doing a meeting at marxism. agreement and obedience are more important than reading. buying is more important than reading.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
so, more about organisational control than actual education?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
this isn't entirely the case, which is why i think the current situation is so interesting. there has always been a quiet, loyal but critical core of mainly old ISers (and post-STW, younger people too) who've been grinding away trying to improve things. not for much longer though.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
The frequency of these has varied quite a bit over the years. The branch in the town where I live tries to have a meeting every week but they don't always mange it. About a year ago the SWP organized more specific educational courses (in each of their districts I think), which was a serious of about 10 meetings on a variety of topics. They even produced a series of booklets to go along side them with questions and activities. I think the idea for the meetings was they wold take up most of an afternoon and breakup into groups to discus the questions and all that sort of stuff. So I think it is a nonsense to say they don't try to educate their members, it's limited to education in the SWP tradition and the SWP line but it is taken seriously.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
cliff is dead. harman is dead. bambery, german and rees are gone. the cc faction, in relation to the party, is the weakest it's ever been. the party is failing to grow in any real measure, which in such turbulent times and being one of the prime objectives for the organisation, could be fatal for them.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Improve the SWP - grind away at it, why? Unless you have a very different view of what they are, what they should do and what they represent, then what the fuck is the point? Or unless you represent something entirely different?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What else what?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
the only prevailing justification relies on remembering the dynamism of the old IS and not wishing for that tradition to die, in my experience. i still think the IS was a great thing and the worst thing that ever happened in it's tradition was the SWP declaring itself an actual political party in 1977, due to the ANL. i can understand why some of them have invested so much in it, even if i disagree.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It wasn't due to the ANL but Cliff. Years wrong.
(edit:and i'm trying to watch the darts:X)
(edit:and i'm trying to watch the darts:X)
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
to do with cliff's enthusiasm for the success of ANL, and the IS became the SWP in January 1977
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
And the ANL was set up after jan 77.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
shit you're right.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
the birmingham engineers were kicked out of the i.s. as was higgins.
the rot goes back much further, probably as far back as the rcp. maybe. at least as far back as "the club".
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
the IS wasn't perfect by any means, but it was going somewhere at least.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
yes, but i think your analysis of "it was the swp wot dunnit" is a bit false. you try to date something that has no date. a strand that has always been there in varying degrees, certainly post ww2.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
that wasn't my intention, i could actually forgive certain elements of the SWPs terrible internal culture if the organisation itself were achieving something tangible. what it does in the present period is paralyze the thing beyond any hope of revival. i didn't say that all of these problems emerged because of the formation of the SWP, just that the formation of the SWP was the worst thing to happen to the IS tradition
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You're still talking like them: in the present period
discokermit
Well-Known Member
we'll crush you under our leninist boot, in the future period.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
seriously though, how do you mean?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's just wanky back covering talk - uberdog doesn't even know he's done it.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
oh yeh. didn't realise "in the present period" was a quote.
Similar threads
