Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
be that as it may, an alleged cover-up in one party out of 20+ is hardly endemic.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
I'm not saying it's more present in CWI than other Leninist groups. But that it's yet another instance of groups afflicted by this.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what about in other organisations? does no abuse take place in tory or lib dem or - dare i say - labour ranks?
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Lets not forget some of the horrific but less notorious cases in anarchist circles...
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
As opposed to non-Leninist groups where bad things never happen?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes, sadly we have our own jerks.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i do believe youBelieve me, I sympathise
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
non-leninist, indeed non-revolutionary, groups better at covering it up
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
A useful and succint summary of the SWP rape crisis and leadership cover-up from David Renton. It is designed for new young recruits (apparently there are some) unaware of the recent and shameful history of the SWP:
Why I don’t buy Socialist Worker
It deserves wider circulation before the forthcoming Marxism.
Why I don’t buy Socialist Worker
It deserves wider circulation before the forthcoming Marxism.
Any news on that front?
I spoke to a guy yesterday who worked in the SWP Printshop for many years, lots of stories like when they were having a meeting at Cliffe's house on 'Womens Voice' issues, and Tony said to his wife, "can you bring the teas in dear?" he hates the SWP now.
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hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
....not surprised...no bloody biscuits...!?
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Don't see why Renton should be any more trusted to paint a fair and accurate picture of this than he is of the history of anti-fascism.
Please, his straw manning is just sad. Does he really believe the SWP would be stupid enough to think they could get away with such a dull-witted "explanation" for the crisis? Or even not have to mention it at all? If he wants new members to leave then at least address the kind of nuanced explanation that would have persuaded them to stay in the first place, not this silly WRP pastiche.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Dunno, but I bet it's not blaming "sectarians" and claiming Smith was vindicated.
I know a few SWP members who would happily strangle Newman and Collins, I've never heard any say Smith was blameless let alone vindicated.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
And yet they are recruiting (and holding) young people. Or why would Renton feel the need to waste his breath?
Also, think about what he's suggesting - it sounds like the way the WRP failed to ride the storm 30 years ago. Aside from operating in substantially different ways, I can't really believe they'd be stupid enough to give such hostages to fortune, can you? Really?
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Nowt I've seen. May have all been tosh.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Yes. They certainly do round my way. If you know differently, please do give us the benefit of your wisdom
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Ian Birchall agrees with David Renton's analysis, but is still going to Marxism. But I wouldn't put much faith in "dialogue" if Birchall were to raise the question of the cover-up in Marxism this year. That said, he played a very honourable role in the rape crisis and I for one can tolerate his errors.
Your account of the dispute is, of course correct. If anyone doubts the tremendous damage that the dispute did to the SWP, just have a look at the programme for Marxism 2016 Timetable for Thursday 30th June 2016 | Marxism 2016 It’s about half the size it was a few years back, confined to a few rooms in the Institute, with the Logan Hall only used for the opening and closing rallies when it used to be used almost every session over the weekend.
And there are good reasons for refusing to buy Socialist Worker. One reason is that it’s very boring. The paper of Roger Protz, Paul Foot and Dave Widgery is now scared to take risks and is very predictable and tedious. The website is pretty useless; it took it thirty-six hours to report Eamonn McCann’s election – it’s hardly worth having a website if you’re going to be that slow. Socialist review and International Socialism are a bit more readable.
But your heading could be read as a call to boycott SW – and that I think would be a big mistake. True the thugs are still there, but they were only a small if noxious minority. The CC that oversaw the whole disaster is still there. But there are still quite a few good socialist activists there, including some who sided with the opposition in 2013 but decided not to leave. The SWP claims – and your piece seems to confirm – that they are recruiting young people. If so they are getting a Marxist education of sorts, and that can only be a good thing.
The Marxist far left in Britain now consists of a number of small groups. Whatever their pretentions, all of them are far too small to be the embryo or even the sperm of a future Bolshevik Party. And the Corbyn phenomenon has created new problems. But they at least do the job of presenting and arguing for a Marxist analysis and passing on a tradition to a new generation which, in different circumstances, may develop new forms of organisation.
This process will be best assisted by our all trying to develop a fraternal spirit in which we can discuss our differences constructively, without denunciations. Boycotts are the last thing we need. Historical Materialism is very foolish to continue excluding Alex Callinicos from its London conferences. The SWP was equally foolish – and ineffective – in boycotting last year’s London Historical Materialism conference – without even making a public statement as to why it was boycotting; very few people noticed its absence.
Personally I am taking part in a forum at this year’s Marxism; I am also speaking at the Weekly Worker summer school. The horrific events of 2013 should not be forgotten, but they should not be a barrier to dialogue. If we can all speak to each other in a reasonably constructive and fraternal fashion, it would be, in Paul Weller’s words, “a start”.
Your account of the dispute is, of course correct. If anyone doubts the tremendous damage that the dispute did to the SWP, just have a look at the programme for Marxism 2016 Timetable for Thursday 30th June 2016 | Marxism 2016 It’s about half the size it was a few years back, confined to a few rooms in the Institute, with the Logan Hall only used for the opening and closing rallies when it used to be used almost every session over the weekend.
And there are good reasons for refusing to buy Socialist Worker. One reason is that it’s very boring. The paper of Roger Protz, Paul Foot and Dave Widgery is now scared to take risks and is very predictable and tedious. The website is pretty useless; it took it thirty-six hours to report Eamonn McCann’s election – it’s hardly worth having a website if you’re going to be that slow. Socialist review and International Socialism are a bit more readable.
But your heading could be read as a call to boycott SW – and that I think would be a big mistake. True the thugs are still there, but they were only a small if noxious minority. The CC that oversaw the whole disaster is still there. But there are still quite a few good socialist activists there, including some who sided with the opposition in 2013 but decided not to leave. The SWP claims – and your piece seems to confirm – that they are recruiting young people. If so they are getting a Marxist education of sorts, and that can only be a good thing.
The Marxist far left in Britain now consists of a number of small groups. Whatever their pretentions, all of them are far too small to be the embryo or even the sperm of a future Bolshevik Party. And the Corbyn phenomenon has created new problems. But they at least do the job of presenting and arguing for a Marxist analysis and passing on a tradition to a new generation which, in different circumstances, may develop new forms of organisation.
This process will be best assisted by our all trying to develop a fraternal spirit in which we can discuss our differences constructively, without denunciations. Boycotts are the last thing we need. Historical Materialism is very foolish to continue excluding Alex Callinicos from its London conferences. The SWP was equally foolish – and ineffective – in boycotting last year’s London Historical Materialism conference – without even making a public statement as to why it was boycotting; very few people noticed its absence.
Personally I am taking part in a forum at this year’s Marxism; I am also speaking at the Weekly Worker summer school. The horrific events of 2013 should not be forgotten, but they should not be a barrier to dialogue. If we can all speak to each other in a reasonably constructive and fraternal fashion, it would be, in Paul Weller’s words, “a start”.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Not the impression I get from the local members. I'll check with my niece what persuaded her to join swss.
BTW do you have any contact with swp members other than as antagonists?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
as well as Natalie Bennett? Maybe they're hoping to win their last few students over
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