SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
Indeed also Chekov and I have mutual friends and he is telling the truth, I remember lots of funny stories about their paper distribution in the Liberties.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
What a 8yr old recognising how sad these lefties were pushing leaflets that no one would read anyway, pretty sharp young kid.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
He probably uses the same line on people delivering pizza hut menus.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
No he's notI presumed idris was chekov. i'm confused.
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Birchall's tweet following the North London aggregate yesterday includes a song, the Last Time by the Rolling Stones. So things are looking predictably ominous..... Rumour has it that the loyalists were able to exclude the oppos, who represented 40% of those in attendance. Does anyone have any more news on this??
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
if you like watching that, you will love watching this
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Yes. In short the opposition have been turning out about a third of the people in the aggregates, and the leadership have been systematically making sure that they are not selected as conference delegates. They apparently only have 18 delegates so far nationally, out of almost 200. They are walking forward out of the trench in a line towards the machine guns.
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Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I presumed idris was chekov. i'm confused.
Definitely not. Actually, Chekov did used to post here though.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Where you getting this from? Not that it's at all surprising. The oppo have pretty much given up any hope of staying in all over the country it seems
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Facebook. The numbers are from Dave Renton, the general gist from a whole bunch of people. They are taking a hiding at the aggregates, and the loyalists are trying to make sure that there's only a handful at conference.
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Sadly, this looks very much like being the case. Apparently, 310 members have signed the opposition statement, which isn't bad at all (given that 400 odd have already walked or dropped out) . But what's the use of that when the whole process is rigged against you?
discokermit
Well-Known Member
has bolshiebhoy given up on the darkside of the internet now?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
At this point the leadership doesn't even really need to rig the process. The majority of the remaining members are either rabid or head in the sand sorts. The leadership will have a majority even if they both play by the rules and are generous in allowing minority representation in terms of delegates. If they aren't generous - and they aren't - they will have a very large majority. If they are really going to the bother of actually rigging things, then its just to make a point.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Whether or not they are "rigging" the process, the decision of the leadership and loyalists to systematically stop opposionists from making it to conference, in a situation where the vote is already won, sends a message to the opposition. No compromise, no fudge, no reconciliation. The only choices remaining are permanent marginalization, falling back into line or leaving.
Many will certainly leave. It's not clear to me though to what degree there will be an organised split and where they will end up. I can't see those who want an SWP clone, minus the current leadership, getting much support. On the other hand, the ISN may already have drifted too far from the SWP politically to be attractive (also, it looks a bit shambolic organisationally).
Many will certainly leave. It's not clear to me though to what degree there will be an organised split and where they will end up. I can't see those who want an SWP clone, minus the current leadership, getting much support. On the other hand, the ISN may already have drifted too far from the SWP politically to be attractive (also, it looks a bit shambolic organisationally).
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Great, so not only do we have Howard Fullashit on here now but the rantings of Hubert Gieschen too. Life in 4TM must be dull for the gossipy old hack to deign us with his rather statuesque presence.
Perhaps picking up a few titbits to keep him onside with the chaps over at PFL.
Oisin123
So Much for Subtlety
Alas, the logic of the party line on the internet in general and this topic in particular is that he should stay off the forums. Hopefully, he'll roll home under the influence and be unable to resist ...
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
No booze for me, I'm on call and have man flu.
Birchall's tweet seems to leave little doubt about the faction's direction. It's plain enough what they're going to do when they lose which probably explains the aggregate votes much better than any cc master plan.
Birchall's tweet seems to leave little doubt about the faction's direction. It's plain enough what they're going to do when they lose which probably explains the aggregate votes much better than any cc master plan.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
picture the scene, a quite pub in bloomsbury, sat round a table is bolshie, callinicos and amy leather. sat behind leather is martin smith, shouting phwoar at any teenage women walking past. they look down into their pints. marxism 2014.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Why exactly do you think that people like Birchall and Stack have reconciled themselves to splitting from a group they dedicated their whole adult lives to? Were they never won to IS politics?
I genuinely don't understand your point of view. Don't you understand that there's no way back for a loyalist SWP? And that if your goal is the growth of SWPish politics that the more "orthodox" elements of the opposition represent the only chance for those politics?
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Point taken. Clearly, the Opposition missed its chance with the special conference earlier this year. They should never have accepted the rules of the game imposed by the CC (eg 6-7 minutes speaking time for faction speakers).
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Yes, that is the brutal reality and it won't have escaped the oppos. The fact that Birchall, after a lifetime of service to IS/SWP, would appear to be on his way out is perhaps indicative that a fairly large number of the 300 odd signatories to the Opposition platform will also depart en masse. Really I don't see what other option they have apart from getting themselves expelled for using the "dark side" of Internet.
Whatever the case, it's clear that after the conference what remains of the SWP will be moving in the direction of sectdom. How long before we see more splits? When will the ultra-loyalist IDOOM faction on the CC move against those they perceive to be "softies" like Alex C, Charlie K, Joseph C. Any bets??
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Latest IDOOM doc - some hilarious moments as they prepare the death
If the majority decision at conferenceon this question is not one that everyone feels they can accept then it may be that different strategies and perspectives need to be put to the test in another organisational form. Even in this event
it is important that any parting of the ways takes place on the basis of a clear political analysis of what form of organisation we need in the current conditions of class struggle.
ie, support us or fuck off.
http://toast-hosting.co.uk/FACING-FUTURE-BATTLES TOGETHER.pdf
If the majority decision at conferenceon this question is not one that everyone feels they can accept then it may be that different strategies and perspectives need to be put to the test in another organisational form. Even in this event
it is important that any parting of the ways takes place on the basis of a clear political analysis of what form of organisation we need in the current conditions of class struggle.
ie, support us or fuck off.
http://toast-hosting.co.uk/FACING-FUTURE-BATTLES TOGETHER.pdf
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
IDOOM only have about three actual brain cells between them, probly just enough to recognise that they can't take on the likes of AC
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
is that actually an IDOOM doc? Most of those names aren't what I'd call brainless people.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I wonder if TK holds Sheffield SWSS meetings with himself
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