SWP expulsions and squabbles

[Nigel Irritable]

john rees, that master dialectician (is that a word?) such an advanced consciousness he's now to be found hanging around conspiracy loons and the iranian government.

Have Counterfire been buttering up the conspiranauts?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Could you do mine for me? I have no clue where I stand these days other than I hate the bastards.

Chilango said something similar about her/his politics.

Many of the leading members on here are very very clear about what they are against, not so forthcoming on what they are for. So, do a search for threads on the SWP, and then do a search for threads on anarchism. The evidence is plain.

 

[TremulousTetra]

and yet you still engage.

you are in trouble Pickman. You'll be getting a p.m. soon from the boss.

 

[TremulousTetra]

treelover they seem even more obsessed with lefty trainspotting than we are on these boards -

 

[chilango]

Chilango said something similar about her/his politics.

Many of the leading members on here are very very clear about what they are against, not so forthcoming on what they are for. So, do a search for threads on the SWP, and then do a search for threads on anarchism. The evidence is plain.

No I didn't.

 

[TremulousTetra]

No I didn't.

my apologies. I thought you had said you were unclear about what even Chilangoism was, let alone fit your views in any particular pigeonhole.

But hey Ho, I unreservedly apologise if you feel I have misrepresented you.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

john rees, that master dialectician (is that a word?) such an advanced consciousness he's now to be found hanging around conspiracy loons and the iranian government.

What?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

it would be interesting for somebody to highlight how this should have been dealt with. Whether it should have been refused to be handled by the party? If they do handle it, how? What questions should have been asked?

Here is an example of RMP3 at work. If he was serious he read the thread and engage with the alternatives presented.

He isn't serious. It's just a bit of fun fo him. It shouldn't need saying, but this is not the use most people would put a rape allegation to.

Louis MacNeice

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

 

[chilango]

my apologies. I thought you had said you were unclear about what even Chilangoism was, let alone fit your views in any particular pigeonhole.

But hey Ho, I unreservedly apologise if you feel I have misrepresented you.

I've no idea what "chilangoism" is. I do know pretty precisely where my ideas fit/come from. It's just not relevant in any practical sense.

 

[sihhi]

What?

Here:

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...arrative-of-9-11.306498/page-24#post-12017228

He never understood the IS tradition. Counterfire is not part of the SWP tradition.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Is the Rees connection simply that he appeared on a couple of platforms organised by other groups which also included some very unsavoury people?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Here is an example of RMP3 at work. If he was serious he read the thread and engage with the alternatives presented.

He isn't serious. It's just a bit of fun fo him. It shouldn't need saying, but this is not the use most people would put a rape allegation to.

Louis MacNeice

after demanding of every politically titillating detail bordering on tabloid fascination, after all the gleeful celebrations of the SWP demise here, you think I'm going to take that pious claptrap seriously?

the people who answered my question seriously, I agreed with. I don't think there is seriously a way in which the SWP could have handled a rape investigation. That is the issue of rape dealt with from MPOV.

On the other AND MANY topics of the thread, I am allowed to discuss. Even when people bring cartoons into the thread about dead people, you hypocrite.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I've no idea what "chilangoism" is. I do know pretty precisely where my ideas fit/come from. It's just not relevant in any practical sense.

I think Jim W knows pretty's precisely where his ideas fit/come from.

There isn't a point.

Chilangoism is something you're attempting to invent/define to make it easier for you to fit my ideas into your way of arguing.

Sadly, my ideas remain confused, contradictory and subject to change at any time.

but forget it. If you think might putting these views next to Jim W's was somehow wrong, I'm sorry.

PS. I do know where many leading members of this forum is views come from, they are just incoherent TO ME, especially when compared to the totally coherent views of the SWP prior to 2000 (When I was a member, read their publications et cetera).

 

[sihhi]

Is the Rees connection simply that he appeared on a couple of platforms organised by other groups which also included some very unsavoury people?

It's the logic of the BDS campaign as endorsed by Counterfire. SWP under Rees was dominated by, fixed on a UCU boycott of all Israeli academics. When Rees & Co. left that approach was quietly dropped by the SWP. Would it be wrong to speculate on a connection?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Have you read the article from the ISJ autumn 89?

Of course she fucking has, froggy is part of one of the most advanced layers and has reached level 9 class consciousness innit

 

[SpineyNorman]

sihhi - what does BDS stand for? (it's probably something dead obvious but I can't think what right now)

 

[sihhi]

they are just incoherent TO ME, especially when compared to the totally coherent views of the SWP prior to 2000 (When I was a member, read their publications et cetera).

a Which month of 2000 did the break happen?
b Why 2000?

 

[cesare]

sihhi - what does BDS stand for? (it's probably something dead obvious but I can't think what right now)

No masochism. Although I suspect that's a matter of opinion.

 

[sihhi]

sihhi - what does BDS stand for? (it's probably something dead obvious but I can't think what right now)

Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions against Israel and/or Israelis outside Israel.

I am not saying it is racist, I don't think frogwoman would either, just some supporters are arguing in quite counterproductive ways.

Here's the latest example by a BDS supporter entitled White guilt, the SWP and Zionism:

This rejection is part of what’s called “political correctness”. It operates by taking advantage of a disorder common among white European men: guilt. It has a long history of undermining movements by promoting divisive identity politics, and making unanswerable allegations of various thought-crimes, and even rape.

Richard Seymour is a leading member of the SWP opposition. His p.c. credentials were established when he signed Zero Authors’ Statement on Gilad Atzmon, which claims that Atzmon tries to legitimize “anti-Semitism”.

1. The neoconservatives are not all Jewish, but most of them are: Paul Wolfowitz, Norman Podhoretz, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Michael Ledeen, David Frum, Elliot Abrams, Irving Kristol… Approximately 2½ percent of the US population is Jewish. If only 50% of the neocons were Jewish, this would be an overrepresentation of twenty times what random sampling would predict. The left notices when white Anglo-Saxon Protestants (WASPs), men, or heterosexuals, are overrepresented in a powerful sector, but not Jews. Its inhibitions prevent it discussing the issue of Jewish power in politics, academia, Hollywood, the media, and finance.

 

[J Ed]

Is the Rees connection simply that he appeared on a couple of platforms organised by other groups which also included some very unsavoury people?

No, he is also featured pretty regularly by the Iranian state broadcaster Press TV. As well as regular coverage of his activities (he returns the favour) he works for them as a pundit.

Counterfire also always seems to have something nice to say about Press TV, which they link to on their website

 

[SpineyNorman]

No masochism. Although I suspect that's a matter of opinion.

You bastard, I even googled it thinking you were serious - I'm at my mum's so I'm glad I didn't do an image search!

 

[cesare]

You bastard, I even googled it thinking you were serious - I'm at my mum's so I'm glad I didn't do an image search!

 

[SpineyNorman]

Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions against Israel and/or Israelis outside Israel.

I am not saying it is racist, I don't think frogwoman would either, just some supporters are arguing in quite counterproductive ways.

Here's the latest example by a BDS supporter entitled White guilt, the SWP and Zionism:

Thanks.

How the hell do you manage to get this much info together in your posts so quickly? I suspect witchcraft myself

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It's the logic of the BDS campaign as endorsed by Counterfire. SWP under Rees was dominated by, fixed on a UCU boycott of all Israeli academics. When Rees & Co. left that approach was quietly dropped by the SWP. Would it be wrong to speculate on a connection?

You don't need to speculate about whether or not Counterfire support the BDS campaign, but it's a bit of a leap to get from there to speculating about them buttering up conspiranauts and crazies. Are they putting these people on their own platforms, for instance? Rees, as a STW figurehead, probably gets invited to speak on an awful lot of platforms, sitting beside a lot of people he doesn't really agree with.

It goes without saying that I'm hardly the greatest admirer of Rees or Counterfire, and I'm pretty skeptical of the BDS movement, but is there anything solid here other than him accepting invitations to speak from third parties who have also invited someone of unsavoury views?

 

[J Ed]

Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions against Israel and/or Israelis outside Israel.

I am not saying it is racist, I don't think frogwoman would either, just some supporters are arguing in quite counterproductive ways.

Here's the latest example by a BDS supporter entitled White guilt, the SWP and Zionism:

Ugh, I stumbled across deliberation.info a few months ago. Horrible site.

 

[butchersapron]

You don't need to speculate about whether or not Counterfire support the BDS campaign, but it's a bit of a leap to get from there to speculating about them buttering up conspiranauts and crazies. Are they putting these people on their own platforms, for instance? Rees, as a STW figurehead, probably gets invited to speak on an awful lot of platforms, sitting beside a lot of people he doesn't really agree with.

It goes without saying that I'm hardly the greatest admirer of Rees or Counterfire, and I'm pretty skeptical of the BDS movement, but is there anything solid here other than him accepting invitations to speak from third parties who have also invited someone of unsavoury views?

Bit odd given his NO PLATFORM EVER EVER position though.

 

[butchersapron]

No platform - unless i'm invited?

 

[sihhi]

You don't need to speculate about whether or not Counterfire support the BDS campaign, but it's a bit of a leap to get from there to speculating about them buttering up conspiranauts and crazies. Are they putting these people on their own platforms, for instance? Rees, as a STW figurehead, probably gets invited to speak on an awful lot of platforms, sitting beside a lot of people he doesn't really agree with.

It goes without saying that I'm hardly the greatest admirer of Rees or Counterfire, and I'm pretty skeptical of the BDS movement, but is there anything solid here other than him accepting invitations to speak from third parties who have also invited someone of unsavoury views?

I meant a connection with the trajectory of the politics of the SWP - I am NOT saying he is antisemitic or that BDS as a whole is antisemitic.

Rees, IMO, was the one pushing for the RESPECT strategy on a SWP-socialist basis, when it eventually had to split he still wanted the SWP to be RESPECT-like in its activities prioritising the STWC etc, ultimately leading to the split.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Rees, IMO, was the one pushing for the RESPECT strategy on a SWP-socialist basis, when it eventually had to split he still wanted the SWP to be RESPECT-like in its activities prioritising the STWC etc, ultimately leading to the split.

I think you're right, this was also the way long standing members of the SWP branch I was in saw it.