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SWP expulsions and squabbles

John Molynuex takes a swipe at Owen Jones, left reformists and centrist vacilators in his latest blog entry. Namechecks Seymour and his excitement about Syriza.

This is a powerful and convincing polemic from Molyneux against the Owen Jones reformist "that wraps it all up for revolutionery socialist change then - from now on its vaguely leftish reformism or nothing " positions, and well worth reading, However , as with almost all the Trotskyism-derived radical Left, Molyneux is still locked immoveably in the fascination with "Leninism" and the "lessons of the October 1917 Revolution". The counterposing of the claimed " lessons" of October 1917 ,with the quite correct need to fight bland leftish reformism - aimed only at boosting up Labour's voting strength through sowing illusions in its potential to become an agent for mildly radical change, is fundamentally false and misleading. For a start Molyneux takes it as read that the Bolshevik Revolution (or coup as it actually was) was a "success".

"The left wing argument for a ‘government of the left’ is that even if it did not break immediately with capitalism or with the capitalist state it would nevertheless be able to ‘open the way’ or ‘point the way’ to the socialist transformation of society. The historical experience suggests otherwise.

Consider first the example of the Provisional Government in Russia that issued from the February Revolution. Formed on the basis of a mass popular insurrection and involving Mensheviks and SRs, this government must have seemed at the time to be the very incarnation of a left government[1], and at the beginning it commanded near universal popular support, including from the moderate wing of Bolshevism (Zinoviev, Kamenev, Stalin). When, in April, Lenin arrived at the Finland Station and proclaimed no confidence in the Provisional government most of ‘the left’ thought he had taken leave of his senses. But Lenin was right. In practice this government continued its collaboration with the bourgeoisie, continued the imperialist war, failed to give land to the peasants and failed even to call a constituent assembly. Far from ‘opening things up’, in reality it opened the way to the counter revolutionary Kornilov coup. Had it not been overthrown from the left, by the workers led by the Bolsheviks, the probability is, as Trotsky observed, that fascism would bear a Russian, not an Italian name."

Now I do buy totally into Molyneux's critique of the inevitable 1936 Spain or "Salvadore Allende's Chile" type failure of any purely Left Reformist attempt to radically attack capitalism in any developed capitalist state TODAY. But why oh why does he have to use the completely inappropriate example of the Bolshevik coup in an economically backward semi-feudal peasant -based state like Czarist Russia to try and prove his point ? Firstly Molyneux ahistorically claims the alternative to the Bolshevik revolution was a "proto fascist" regime. Now I don't think the Kerensky-led bourgeois democratic government would have survived either, but what would have replaced it wasn't "fascism" but simply a return to the completely authoritarian semi-feudal Czarist autocracy that already existed, NOT "fascism". Secondly Molyneux just assumes that Lenin and Trotsky's gamble "paid off" and the revolution was a "success". This simply imports wholesale the Stalinist myth of the "Revolution" , which of course legitimises their bureaucratic class rule , into the wider socialist historical narrative. For Fuck Sake, the October 1917 Revolutions was actually comprehensively LOST by the mid 1920's - that's what the eventual complete victory of the Stalinist bureaucracy, the Purges/murders of all the old Bolsheviks, actually means ! And we all now know, with the hindsight of nearly 100 years, that the Stalinist bureaucracy were in fact not even a permanent bureaucratic "New Class", as some neo-Trotskists" claimed, but just a "proxy stand-in " for the conventional bourgeoisie. How do we know this ? Because there has been a complete conventional bourgeois capitalist restoration in the Soviet Union, the Eastern Bloc, and it is also underway in China and Cuba too as we sit here.


Owen Jones and all his petty reformist ilk are indeed pure poison to the building of an effective mass radical resistence movement against capitalism. However the apparently immoveable tendancy of revolutionery socialists to cite the failed Bolshevik 1917 Revolution as the key evidence to support revolutionery anti capitalist politics against this reformist drivel is a depressing example of how far the revolutionery Left has to go ideologically to reorient itself to the undoubtedly non-reformist needs of our times, with politics that can break decisively from "Lenin-worship" . For a start it is nonsense to counterpose "bolshevik party structures", and the particularities of the revolutionery situation in 1917, war-torn, semi-feudal, Czarist Russia, in a debate about the usefulness or otherwise of building broad, radical anti austerity and anti capitalist "Syriza" type movements. Of course the Owen Jones Labourite reformists want to co-opt a Syriza-type movement into supporting Labour electorally . But the job of revolutioneries surely is to be in there, at the building of any such large movement, specifically arguing the futility of any linkage to Labour, or reformism in the longer term. Ignore any" Syriza-type" development though and the revolutionery Left just condemns itelf to irrelevence. a "Syriza" type radical movement would inevitably buckle in a revolutionery situation, as the Greek Syriza will do. However no proto-revolutionery situation will even develop unless the widespread growing opposition to austerity can be built into a mass movement - we need to operate at the ideological level most people are at TODAY. In other words the entire Syriza-type movement is a "TRANSITIONAL" one, making economic and political demands and relating to people on the basis of pretty limited, essentially reformist demands, but which capitalism cannot meet in a worldwide capitalit crisis. Eventually in this situation, reformist demands can lead to revolutionery ones. Unfortunately if the mobilisation of masses of people around essentially reformist demands are left to the utterly reformist likes of Owen Jones, whilst revolutioneries sit in glorious ideologically pure isolation in their various mini "Bolshevik" reenactment Parties , polishing their busts of Lenin, memorising his timeless pearls of wisdom, it will be a movement leading nowhere fast.
 
And if all these people don't learn how to actually listen to people rather than just going around talking at people and going on about "layers" and "consciousness" it will go even faster.

great post ayatollah.
 
Kornilov had no interest in restoring the Tsar, his regime would have been (indistinguishable from) fascism. The idea that Russia would just return to how it was before is ahistorical nonsense.
 
Interesting discussion of the 70's crisis in the revolutionary left by Harman from 79.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/harman/1979/xx/eurevleft.html
Some weird shit went on back then:

"The destructive dialectic at work showed itself first in Lotta Continua. LC was the most left wing of the revolutionary organisations in 1976, and the one that turned its back least on the ‘movements’. But it had also tried to cast itself in a Marxist-Leninist (i.e. Maoist) mould. In December 1975 this still meant the party as the repository of Mao’s thought laying down the line to the masses. The women’s movement organised a large demonstration against the reactionary abortion laws. It was on a women only basis – and so Lotta Continua’s all male servizio d’ordine (stewards) broke into the demonstration on the grounds that abortion was an issue for both men and women. The result was a departure of large numbers of women from Lotta Continua in disgust." :eek:
 
Total purposeful misreading of L.C as maoist there by Harman - nice to see some things never change in the party. That sort of dismissive glib labeling played the same role in the party and their press that autonomist has done since the early 2000s (stay away from then stay away from, them, they are abandoning class). All part of the tradition.


The stewards thing did happen and led to the dissolution of the group at Rimini a year and a bit later - the SWP loyalists play the role of the stewards in this particular farce.
 
Kornilov had no interest in restoring the Tsar, his regime would have been (indistinguishable from) fascism. The idea that Russia would just return to how it was before is ahistorical nonsense.

Kornilov wouldn't have been the sole Russian ruling class determinant of that now would he belboid ? But even if what transpired after the very likely failure of the bourgeois democratic government had been a return to semi feudal, militarist, autocracy , with a small but growing industrial capitalist sector, and a small working class, and a vast peasant majority ("fascism" if you like - but how historically useful is that term in the Russian context ? Not all authoritarian regimes are "fascist"), what's your actual point ? A quibble about the labelling of a possible reactionery restorationist regime ? Or actually a disagreement with my main point, ie, that for genuine revolutionery socialists the October 1917 Revolution was not "won", but in fact briefly staggered from a interregnum period as a revolutionery Workers and Peasants State held together by the Bolshevik Party, to complete world historic DEFEAT, represented by the victory of the Stalinist Bureaucracy, and decades later complete capitalist bourgeois restoration. At a cost of tens of millions of workers, peasants, and revolutioneries killed by purges and famines, the establishment of similar Stalinist regimes across the globe, and a political and particularly IDEOLOGICAL setback for the working class which is still to be calculated . Do you disagree with THAT ?

Do you have any doubt that if in September 1917 Trotsky had had the opportunity to time travel to today and saw what the outcome of October 1917 actually was, in human cost and global political terms, that he wouldn't have had second thoughts about the adventurist Bolshevik coup of October 1917 ?
 
This is a big part of the problem isn't it? They live in a student bubble (very nearly typed brothel then lol) with no idea what's going on around them. Which is potentially very, very harmful.

Given that a lot of students now have to work as well as study (in shops, petrol stations, etc, for example), and most are surviving on a low income, I am not convinced that students live in a "bubble". Add to that the fact that some students are parents, carers, have family responsibilities, etc, the idea that they are living in a "bubble" doesn't always fit.
 
Its irrevlevant the only media coverage its got is its cak handed dealing with a sex abuse issue.
A revolutionary party should be seen as a threat rather than a joke tommy sherdian or deeply dsturbing.
 
Given that a lot of students now have to work as well as study (in shops, petrol stations, etc, for example), and most are surviving on a low income, I am not convinced that students live in a "bubble". Add to that the fact that some students are parents, carers, have family responsibilities, etc, the idea that they are living in a "bubble" doesn't always fit.

I think that's completely true of most students, but specifically not true of a lot of those involved in student politics. It's doubly not true of the ones involved in student politics who are obsessed with identity politics.

I'll never forget one lad who was very much that sort telling me how he was too good to ever do any kind of "menial work" or be part of the working-class. He's an elected student officer now.
 
Hang on butchers. This anarchist (I think) account which Chris cites says LC modelled it's constitution on that of the Chinese CP. http://libcom.org/book/export/html/26059
That's not by an anarchist it's by an ex LC member - and without any further info it doesn't say anything about how or why the party was maoist - what aspects was it supposed to be modeled on and so on. You'd expect a maoist organisation to declare itself one wouldn't you? Anf or the members to realise that this was the case? Or Harman to provide some examples in his piece? And Harman himself can't make his mind up whether it's maoist (and so "the repository of Mao’s thought" charged with "laying down the line to the masses.") or semi-maoist, and in the process of abandoning "the old notions of the party which had contained large doses of Maoist-Stalinism ". Thye key thing is to get them into the maoist camp, get the label on them, then the dismissal of them and the other groups in the piece can begin.

I note Harman's next lines weren't included:

The women who remained inside the organisation began to feel that there was some connection between the leadership style of the organisation and what had happened.

What a thing to think!
 
Kornilov wouldn't have been the sole Russian ruling class determinant of that now would he belboid ? But even if what transpired after the very likely failure of the bourgeois democratic government had been a return to semi feudal, militarist, autocracy , with a small but growing industrial capitalist sector, and a small working class, and a vast peasant majority ("fascism" if you like - but how historically useful is that term in the Russian context ? Not all authoritarian regimes are "fascist"), what's your actual point ? A quibble about the labelling of a possible reactionery restorationist regime ? Or actually a disagreement with my main point, ie, that for genuine revolutionery socialists the October 1917 Revolution was not "won", but in fact briefly staggered from a interregnum period as a revolutionery Workers and Peasants State held together by the Bolshevik Party, to complete world historic DEFEAT, represented by the victory of the Stalinist Bureaucracy, and decades later complete capitalist bourgeois restoration. At a cost of tens of millions of workers, peasants, and revolutioneries killed by purges and famines, the establishment of similar Stalinist regimes across the globe, and a political and particularly IDEOLOGICAL setback for the working class which is still to be calculated . Do you disagree with THAT ?

Do you have any doubt that if in September 1917 Trotsky had had the opportunity to time travel to today and saw what the outcome of October 1917 actually was, in human cost and global political terms, that he wouldn't have had second thoughts about the adventurist Bolshevik coup of October 1917 ?
Trotsky and Lenin knew the revolution was doomed if it remained isolated. But it was only premature if you ignored the possibility of it spreading to the more advanced west. They might not have forseen exactly how the revolution would be subverted (by the stalinist bureaucracy) but they knew it couldn't survive if isolated. Lenin: "It is not open to the slightest doubt that the final victory of our revolution, if it were to remain alone, if there were no revolutionary movement in other countries, would be hopeless... Our salvation from all these difficulties, I repeat, is an all-European revolution." Trotsky: "Without the direct state support of the European proletariat the working class of Russia cannot remain in power and convert its temporary domination into a lasting socialistic dictatorship.Of this there cannot for one moment be any doubt. But on the other hand there cannot be any doubt that a socialist revolution in the West will enable us todirectly convert the temporary domination of the working class into a socialist dictatorship."
 
Given that a lot of students now have to work as well as study (in shops, petrol stations, etc, for example), and most are surviving on a low income, I am not convinced that students live in a "bubble". Add to that the fact that some students are parents, carers, have family responsibilities, etc, the idea that they are living in a "bubble" doesn't always fit.

Nobody said it did. We're talking about a specific section of the student population.
 
Hang on butchers. This anarchist (I think) account which Chris cites says LC modelled it's constitution on that of the Chinese CP. http://libcom.org/book/export/html/26059

It adopted that constitution in December 1974 and survived like that for about a year - at which point after the attempt to enter the women's march by force in December 1975, branches started effectively dropping off and acting independently leading to its final end as a constituted group in November 1976.
 
Has Jerry Hicks who the SWP are backing for Gen. Secretary for UNITE fallen out with them. In the article below it mentions something about opportunism: Has this something to do woth promoting their front organisations.
"It wasn’t me who invited political ‘left’ groups including the Socialist Workers Party [SWP], to meetings to offer cash support for their causes in return for support in the General Secretary election. The SWP only became an enemy when they refused the offer.
If any of the statements against me were true, the easiest [and cheapest] way to make members aware would be for Unite to hold a ‘Husting’ where both candidates could be subjected to full scrutiny on all matters and televised and published on Unite’s web site, so that every member can make their own minds up. So why is it Len McCluskey embarks on his ‘Grand Tour’ yet fails to reply to every request for a ‘Hustings’. While I am willing to meet anytime, any where, any place."
http://www.jerryhicks4gs.org/2013/03/unite-union-inclusive-and-tolerant.html?spref=tw&m=1
 
I think that's completely true of most students, but specifically not true of a lot of those involved in student politics. It's doubly not true of the ones involved in student politics who are obsessed with identity politics.

I'll never forget one lad who was very much that sort telling me how he was too good to ever do any kind of "menial work" or be part of the working-class. He's an elected student officer now.

The too good for menial work cos I have a degree surfaces on this site from time to time
 
Nobody said it did. We're talking about a specific section of the student population.

Im an old git at uni just now, and yeah despite the fact that a lot of students do have to engage with the rest of what the rest of life's struggles entails a lot of them do seem to be stuck in the bubble of the campus....
 
Im an old git at uni just now, and yeah despite the fact that a lot of students do have to engage with the rest of what the rest of life's struggles entails a lot of them do seem to be stuck in the bubble of the campus....

Me too mate, I'm in my third year now but when I started I was shocked at just how detached from the reality most of us know some students, especially liberal lefty ones, are.
 
Kornilov wouldn't have been the sole Russian ruling class determinant of that now would he belboid ? But even if what transpired after the very likely failure of the bourgeois democratic government had been a return to semi feudal, militarist, autocracy , with a small but growing industrial capitalist sector, and a small working class, and a vast peasant majority ("fascism" if you like - but how historically useful is that term in the Russian context ? Not all authoritarian regimes are "fascist"), what's your actual point ? A quibble about the labelling of a possible reactionery restorationist regime ? Or actually a disagreement with my main point, ie, that for genuine revolutionery socialists the October 1917 Revolution was not "won", but in fact briefly staggered from a interregnum period as a revolutionery Workers and Peasants State held together by the Bolshevik Party, to complete world historic DEFEAT, represented by the victory of the Stalinist Bureaucracy, and decades later complete capitalist bourgeois restoration. At a cost of tens of millions of workers, peasants, and revolutioneries killed by purges and famines, the establishment of similar Stalinist regimes across the globe, and a political and particularly IDEOLOGICAL setback for the working class which is still to be calculated . Do you disagree with THAT ?

Do you have any doubt that if in September 1917 Trotsky had had the opportunity to time travel to today and saw what the outcome of October 1917 actually was, in human cost and global political terms, that he wouldn't have had second thoughts about the adventurist Bolshevik coup of October 1917 ?
My point was clear, I thought. It was the one I made, no more no less.

As to the rest, I dont believe it was a coup, far from it, even the Mensheviks agreed it had the support of the vast majority of the working class. And a time travelling Trotsky would (as bb implies) be more concerned with what went wrong in Germany etc.
 
They have fixed (after some prompting from yours truely!) the link on the internet marxist archive to a 1980 ISJ review of Beyond the Fragments: http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/isj2/1980/no2-009/goodwin.html

Although the ISN folk would like to believe they have nothing to do with earlier debates between soc fems and the IS what is striking is how Pete Goodwin's arguments against Rowbotham et al could have been written last week to answer the ISN anti-Leninist turn. Even on questions of style there is a synergy beyween the BtF authors and the latest exiles. One of the latter's big themes is how we need a dialogue with the modern feminist movement and not to look for ready made answers in the sacred texts. And Goodwin says of BtF : " ‘They do not offer any “answers”,’ the blurb on the back proudly announces, ‘indeed their distinct concerns and emphases would make that impossible ...’ (Note, by the way, how the word ‘answers’ appears in inverted commas, as if the concept itself was a figment of the deranged Leninist imagination)"

He goes on to say how after reading certain passages on the dangers of Leninism "The reader is supposed to shudder with visions of machismo and misanthropy." Is there any criticism of leninist parties that isn't a rehash of earlier arguments?

And this warning applies too, with suitable name changes. "Far more likely is that the assault Beyond the Fragments wages on the hard faced Leninist politics with our ‘obsession’ with workplace struggle will simply be used as a ‘theoretical’ prop for dropping one rung further out of the struggle and trying to cultivate one’s own lifestyle. And if the need for a national political alternative is felt then Tony Benn is ready smiling in the wings to satisfy it. He’s quite willing to make the overtures. Remember Peter Hain’s remarks about ‘the seminal work of socialist theory’ at the Great Debate. Remember his indulgence from the chair." There's a reason Owen Jones and Laura Penny are courting SEYMOUR!
there is some good criticism in tht,review, but there is plenty of easily responded too as well. He gets what a 'professional revolutionary' wrong, he equates revolutionary organisation with Leninist DC Party. SR & HW get plenty wrong too - the fact that it is fine to say 'I dont know' about a bunch of stuff doesn't mean you should say 'I dont know' about everything. Quite a useful doc tho, quite easy to go through and improve upon.
 
Bolshiebhoy, is there any chance that the Mail's third rape case, the one that led to an expulsion, is the same one you've mentioned here?
 
Bolshiebhoy, is there any chance that the Mail's third rape case, the one that led to an expulsion, is the same one you've mentioned here?
Dunno. The guy I knew of had only been a member for a few months when expelled. But yeah he was in his 20's. It was fairly common knowledge in certain London branches; it also showed the swp in a good light, in how it was handled, imho.
 
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