TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
it could mean this, and it could mean that. We don't know.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
What??
Scribbling S
Active Member
On the "number 9" , this is what the SWP Central Committee say in their perspectives document for the Special Conference "Our position is that in these kinds of cases (and we know of only one other that the party has dealt with in recent memory—we do not know where the figure of “nine rape cases” that has circulated on the Internet comes from) is that it is up to the woman to decide whether she wishes to take the matter to the police." The use of "recent memory" is an odd phrase: Guessing, I assume they mean there are only two recent cases - "Delta" and the Sheffield Organiser. But they do leave the possibility there were 7 more going further back.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
On re-reading it you are quite right. And from what scribblnig has just written, it sounds like a rather rumour mongered number anyway.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Quite possibly - someone seems to have used it in argument though and i think she'd only have made it public if she thought it was someone who would be in a position to know. Or it could be total bollocks.
october_lost
It's not hip any more...
Which is what? That the SWP is organisationally baggy as opposed to being opportunistic and hostile to others? Many a silly point is made about the SWP, but I would have thought it was un-Marxist to try and separate content and form in this manner.
I also think you really need to work out thinking beyond binaries all the time.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
organisational baggy?
Separate content and form in this manner?
Thinking beyond binaries?
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
but I've already said I wasn't talking about this issue on purpose. What he quoted wasn't referring to this issue. People constantly take what I'm saying to a different topic, and then complain when I reciprocate in kind.
newbie
undisambiguated
the usual form of words is "bringing the <organisation> into disrepute".
Even noting what cesare et al said much earlier in the thread about best practice workplace investigations of wrongdoing I'm personally very doubtful a small voluntary body can pronounce on anything beyond reputation.
And tbh I don't have a scooby how they're supposed to protect the alleged perpetrator if they find his (her) actions did not bring them into disrepute. The entire internet shouting 'cover-up' is hardly a great outcome, for the accused (whose reputation is utterly trashed) or for those doing the investigation.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Convicted or not, the outside world was never supposed to know.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
No shit but these people don't understand the internet
Sean Delaney
Electric Prune
Not weird at all. SR (Spearmint Rhino, not the Social Revolutionary party) represents probably the most repugnant side of contemporary pornography/sex work - a fully functioning sex factory. The smaller dives are run by criminals and gangsters, and short of a fully emancipatory revolutionary situation, a la Barcelona 1936, I can't see these being a very logical target.
Not that I think picketing women in any sex club is a great idea - censorship and prudery don't make great bedfellows for a politics of emanipation. Something of the 60s New Left spirit has definitely to be rediscovered again one day. Trots have always been happy to work with sexual conservatives (Lyndsay German's famous: 'gay rights are not a shibboleth' comes to mind). I wonder why?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
And Socialist Resistance make their pitch:
http://socialistresistance.org/4929/lets-get-some-good-out-of-this-comrades
The old and tired hungering for delicious young blood. The short version is please please please please work with us. We'll do whatever you want, just please let us be involved.
http://socialistresistance.org/4929/lets-get-some-good-out-of-this-comrades
The old and tired hungering for delicious young blood. The short version is please please please please work with us. We'll do whatever you want, just please let us be involved.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Whilst I agree in a general sense - at the end of the day both will need to be pressured - even to have success against just one. The way Speamint Rhino resists community pressure against a council planning go-ahead is it says you should let us open a proper, regulated, taxpaying, fully licensed venue - criminal venues are meeting "the demand" right now, open us up and make the police deal with these bad ones.
No one feminist or socialist - as far I know - pickets the women workers in a sex club, only right-wing religious forces do this, people have gathered outside entrances to ward off or cause commotion against customers/clients, with general leaflets about the profits secured from and damage caused by the sex industry.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
It's terrible when Woodhead did it (Woodhead began a romantic relationship with a 17-year-old female student in 1976 when Woodhead was a 30 year-old teacher):
"Members of the National Union of Teachers are receiving ballot papers for a boycott of appraisal. The vote is for action against a central plank of the performance related pay scheme the government wants to impose on teachers. It comes as education ministers are digging their heels in defending the man who sums up New Labour's vision of education—chief inspector of schools Chris Woodhead.... Now he is in trouble over allegations by his ex-wife, Cathy Woodhead that he lied about an affair with one of his pupils 20 years ago. David Hart, general secretary of the National Association of Head Teachers, says, "The chief inspector, who is responsible for moral and spiritual standards in schools, is the subject of allegations that he has lied publicly." Woodhead says he only began an affair with Amanda Johnston after she ceased to be a pupil. But colleagues of his at the time have now broken their silence and backed Cathy Woodhead's claim that the affair began while Amanda Johnston was still her then husband's pupil. Education secretary David Blunkett, along with papers like the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph, are standing by Woodhead. The hypocrisy stinks." (Socialist Worker, 24 Apr 1999)
It's healthy and cannot be criticised when Delta did it (Delta began a romantic relationship with a 17-year-old female new SWSS recruit in 2008 when Delta was ?? years old)
"it was important to be clear that the disputes committee doesn’t exist to police moral, er, bourgeois morality, so we agreed that issues that weren’t relevant to us were ... whether the age differences in their relationship because as revolutionaries we didn’t consider that should be our remit to consider issues such as those"
"Members of the National Union of Teachers are receiving ballot papers for a boycott of appraisal. The vote is for action against a central plank of the performance related pay scheme the government wants to impose on teachers. It comes as education ministers are digging their heels in defending the man who sums up New Labour's vision of education—chief inspector of schools Chris Woodhead.... Now he is in trouble over allegations by his ex-wife, Cathy Woodhead that he lied about an affair with one of his pupils 20 years ago. David Hart, general secretary of the National Association of Head Teachers, says, "The chief inspector, who is responsible for moral and spiritual standards in schools, is the subject of allegations that he has lied publicly." Woodhead says he only began an affair with Amanda Johnston after she ceased to be a pupil. But colleagues of his at the time have now broken their silence and backed Cathy Woodhead's claim that the affair began while Amanda Johnston was still her then husband's pupil. Education secretary David Blunkett, along with papers like the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph, are standing by Woodhead. The hypocrisy stinks." (Socialist Worker, 24 Apr 1999)
It's healthy and cannot be criticised when Delta did it (Delta began a romantic relationship with a 17-year-old female new SWSS recruit in 2008 when Delta was ?? years old)
"it was important to be clear that the disputes committee doesn’t exist to police moral, er, bourgeois morality, so we agreed that issues that weren’t relevant to us were ... whether the age differences in their relationship because as revolutionaries we didn’t consider that should be our remit to consider issues such as those"
xslavearcx
time for a nu-metal revival?
never seems to be much coherance with anything the SWP says or does as witnessed by the above discussion over its homage to/opposition to identity politics and by the hypocracy demonstrated in the last post. Probably the only way one can explain it is if one principle - the principle of recruitment - is the only one posited that they pay any homage too. One cannot help but be reminded of St Pauls (Badious wonderful father of universalism)infamous "I am all things to all men" speech when it came towards how he tailored the xtian message to different audiences...
1 Corinthians 9:19-22
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1 Corinthians 9:19-22
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Apologies Jean-Luc, genuine mistake. I think the leaflet was pretty good though, and your criticisms of it a tad bizarre
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Quite a lot of the people involved don't know where Attercliffe is and would be horrified to learn that brothels
exist in Sheffield.
As an aside, I don't think many of the organisers thought much about the campaign beyond having a demo, and the reason that there were a few issues lumped in together without any suggestion of how to tackle them was that there wasn't much focus on what the march was for. This didn't seem to stop people having fun on the march
There's been no real follow up to it.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Circulate to who you idiot?
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
One approach would be to circulate to organisations that have working-class people male or female, or women of any class in them, and particularly those that allow a chance for their rape to be repeated - those that have socials together etc.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Given that I said in this case the guy went back to Ireland butchers might have paused to question the context. The kid was a republican. work it out whether people were informed or not.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
I know the woman didn't want to go to the police because I heard her arguments against doing that. Check the earlier part of the thread. This is a case where the SWP behaved with exemplary morality. no doubt some would say it was cause the guy was relatively new to the party but I'd say that was irrelevant .
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
This is a big part of the problem isn't it? They live in a student bubble (very nearly typed brothel then lol) with no idea what's going on around them. Which is potentially very, very harmful.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Statement from York Anarchists. Highlights:
All OK ish. But this last one is a bit weird - how can the good SWP / bad SWP line be drawn much less enforced?
It all sounds like bluster. SWP were out with newspaper sellers and identikit card posters once again at the Whittington demo, it's impossible to tell who is and who isn't repulsed by SWP's actions, because if questioned just about all ordinary members probably would assert they are repulsed but that the CC has learnt its lesson, and that left unity is the important thing.
All OK ish. But this last one is a bit weird - how can the good SWP / bad SWP line be drawn much less enforced?
It all sounds like bluster. SWP were out with newspaper sellers and identikit card posters once again at the Whittington demo, it's impossible to tell who is and who isn't repulsed by SWP's actions, because if questioned just about all ordinary members probably would assert they are repulsed but that the CC has learnt its lesson, and that left unity is the important thing.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Why does where the adjudged rapist went to matter? It's such an odd statement from you there. Why don't you explain what the whole context was, seeing as you are claiming it makes a crucial difference.
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