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SWP expulsions and squabbles

Nigel Irritable said:
One part of the whole row that remains something of a mystery to me is just what is so special about Delta that the rest of the SWP leadership were willing to destroy the reputation of their organisation to protect his.

They crucified Rees and German as soon as it became advantageous to do so. Why not Delta? I'd generally expect the SWP CC to ruthlessly prioritise the good of the party as they see it over any individual.
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His impeccable proletarian credentials?
I mean, obviously they're not actually impeccable by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly more so than some of his contemporaries on the CC.
 
SLK said:
I don't have experience of the 80s. Mark wasn't the hardest member, I admit that. But then neither was I really - you'd have done more flyposting if I was! So I find it hard to comment. However, the key difference might be Cliff. I remember him saying that he'd become more centralist as he got older, and to be fair (though those reading this who have always been critical of Cliff won't agree) that's fine to a point when it's Cliff. It's not so fine when it's Rees and Bambery, and less so when it's Joe Cardwell - who I actually had a lot of respect for.
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said something similar to this the other day in the, "life after the SWP" thread.

The stories about Cliff interventions to change the direction of the party, were always about him going outside the party and learning from the class. did Rees etc go outside the bubble?
 
belboid said:
why do you like it? Its complete shit.

‘You have a pervert in your ranks and therefore your whole institution must be perverted!’

Is the articles claim, but its a claim that - surprise, surprise - completely and utterly misses the point. It isn't about the SWP having one vile rapist as a member, its about the party at large failing to investigate claims properly, and covering up for their failures.
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so you accept that the initial failure was most likely fuckup, rather than cover up??? And then suggest they went on to cover up, the fuckup?
 
Rosen speaks - (and its his usual centrist fudge)

So, the position that I'm in now is that I guess it's a matter of waiting (for the time being) for the organisation to declare that a) it got this one completely wrong b) it got it wrong precisely because it acted beyond its terms of reference and c) in the event of anything like this happening again, they would behave in a completely different way and that in society,'out there', in unions, rape crisis centres and the like, people have worked out better ways of dealing with such things and that the SWP could and should learn from that experience.

In the meantime, some of the people I respect seem to have left the organisation, so again, I wonder what kinds of re-shaping, what kinds of new alliances and organisations will emerge. I'll rephrase that: ever since the 70s people I've respected have left IS or the SWP. Sometimes they have stayed interested in campaigning for peace and justice for all and I'll always work with that...
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Rosen said: "So, the position that I'm in now is that I guess it's a matter of waiting (for the time being) for the organisation to declare that a) it got this one completely wrong..."

They've had two conferences to do just that. Why does he think they're going to do this in the future?
 
butchersapron said:
Rosen speaks - (and its his usual centrist fudge)
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Does "centrist fudge" mean fucking frustrating waffling twaddle, cos that's how it reads to me.

i spotted a few of his earlier interventions across at the Tomb, and they were slightly finger wagging in tone (is that possible?), but not, as you would have hoped, towards delta or the sex abuse apologists etc, rather his rebuking was directed towards those seeking justice and explanation and discussion.

i lost a bit of respect for Mr Rosen as a consequence.
 
redcogs said:
Does "centrist fudge" mean fucking frustrating waffling twaddle, cos that's how it reads to me.

i spotted a few of his earlier interventions across at the Tomb, and they were slightly finger wagging in tone (is that possible?), but not, as you would have hoped, towards delta or the sex abuse apologists etc, rather his rebuking was directed towards those seeking justice and explanation and discussion.

i lost a bit of respect for Mr Rosen as a consequence.
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Yes it does! :D He was doing the same finger wagging from above on socialist unity threads, and doing it at people rather more up to speed with the facts as well. This is the sort of thing his semi-distant role is designed to deal with i feel - but why bother going to all that effort to establish some front of critical independence if all you're going to bother saying is the above? It's more interesting that he feels he now had to say something publicly i think - that means the heat is starting to effect people like him.
 
http://kettshead.wordpress.com/2013/03/14/a-shower-of-bastards/

A ancient evil, long thought lost, has stirred in the vast expanse of the lands beyond the Wall. With dwindling numbers and resources, the gallant men of the Night’s Watch desperately hold the Wall against the evil that would destroy all. They call it, ‘creeping feminism’.
The internet is coming.
Elsewhere the Seven Kingdoms are in turmoil. The Mad King Delta sits on the Red Throne. A cruel and depraved man, he is accused of many heinous crimes and abuses against his subjects. Across the Narrow Sea the men and women of the Free Cities have stood aghast at the foul practices of the Mad King, and urge the people of Westeros to take up arms against their oppressive leadership and join them in their crusade for a better world.
The Mad King had grown bitter and paranoid in age. Many lords grumbled but most did nothing. A brave band of knights known as the Four dared to meet on the ancient holy site of Facebook to express their concerns. The Mad King cried treason, and had them burnt at the stake without trial. For some this was a step too far. The mighty Lord Seymour of Lenin’s Tomb and his companion the Ser China the Bard raised their banners in rebellion against the Mad King, and in defence of honour and the oppressed.
Other lords sort to compromise with evil. Those such as Ian of the Vale and Ser Pat of the Stack beseeched the warring lords to find peace, for the internet is coming. Evil may not be perfect they said, but the realm must be protected from those outside who seek to destroy it: the filth and treason of the sectarian blogs.. Is there nought to be said for peace, these men did ask?
The Mad King however was not alone. Some men and women had grown powerful through his reign, and desperately sought to defend it. These included his master of whisperers the wily Lord Weyman, known as the spider, and the slippery master of coin, Lord Charlie Littlekimber. Leading them however was the Hand of the King, The Lion of Acton, Lord Callinicos of Casterly Rock. The richest man in the realm, it was said he was so rich he even shits gold (and political diatribes).
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an embittered blog post from I assume an ex swappie - giving it a game of thrones twist

If it wasn't for the rape stuff - there might be mileage in a SWPish sitcom
 
Nigel Irritable said:
Meanwhile, the CPGB/WW in its desperation to have a go at the Socialist Party failed to notice that the SP's rather peripheral connection to an allegation of domestic violence in the RMT had already been severed.

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/16319
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i like the way that there's a link to join the sp just below the article. it could - perhaps should - have said 'now hedley's gone, what about joining us?' which was the message i took from the sp's juxtaposition of the article and the link.
 
Pickman's model said:
i like the way that there's a link to join the sp just below the article. it could - perhaps should - have said 'now hedley's gone, what about joining us?' which was the message i took from the sp's juxtaposition of the article and the link.
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more concerningly there seems little place for anyone over the age of 20 in the sp:

yffjdemo7.jpg
 
Pickman's model said:
i like the way that there's a link to join the sp just below the article. it could - perhaps should - have said 'now hedley's gone, what about joining us?' which was the message i took from the sp's juxtaposition of the article and the link.
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I think that might be automatic Pickman's doesn't it appear at the bottom of every article (just as how, in real life, every sentence ends with "subscription to the Socialist comrade?")
 
That reminds me I need to try and dig out that "day in the life of a Socialist seller" booklet/guide thingy they gave me when I first joined, and when I suspect they harboured some minor hope I might end up being an organiser for them, it's amazing. Have you got a copy of it Froggy? That's the one that got the line "10pm - There's a film showing at the local independent cinema about Hugo Chavez, I manage to sell 4 copies standing outside as the film ends" amongst other crackers :D
 
Who is going to be first with the learned tome 'Sex, Feminism, Power Relations and Corruption - The Long Decline of British Bolshevism'? Seymour Lenin or I' Birchall? ;)
 
Delroy Booth said:
That reminds me I need to try and dig out that "day in the life of a Socialist seller" booklet/guide thingy they gave me when I first joined, and when I suspect they harboured some minor hope I might end up being an organiser for them, it's amazing. Have you got a copy of it Froggy? That's the one that got the line "10pm - There's a film showing at the local independent cinema about Hugo Chavez, I manage to sell 4 copies standing outside as the film ends" amongst other crackers :D
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I didn't get a copy of that, I've got the branch organisers' guide though :D
 
Delroy Booth said:
That reminds me I need to try and dig out that "day in the life of a Socialist seller" booklet/guide thingy they gave me when I first joined, and when I suspect they harboured some minor hope I might end up being an organiser for them, it's amazing. Have you got a copy of it Froggy? That's the one that got the line "10pm - There's a film showing at the local independent cinema about Hugo Chavez, I manage to sell 4 copies standing outside as the film ends" amongst other crackers :D
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Serious?
 
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