SWP expulsions and squabbles

[Jean-Luc]

useless

Well, but what's your practicable, useful solution to a problem like this when it arises?

 

[SpackleFrog]

A lot of SWP fulltimers have come and gone in Sheffield, which one is this?

 

[treelover]

"News from Hammersmith:I hear Calinicos is calling for the IDOP motions to be “treated with the contempt they deserve” and that calls from the podium for further expulsions are being met with applause.The Facebook Four are set to be expelled again at 2.30.
The SWP CC Faction has clearly gerrymandered today’s event – but they failed to win a majority among the whole membership. They got 512 supporters compared to the IDOP’s latest figure of 540 as of this morning, with people still joining"

Looks ugly, can't believe people can join/stay in this oufit...

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Well, but what's your practicable, useful solution to a problem like this when it arises?

Well you posting useless idiocy doesn't make any demand on me to come up with a solution (I'm not the one posting the useless idiocy); rather the responsibility is on you to stop posting rubbish. However, there have been many constructive repsosnes made on this thread; so do some work, go back and look for them and while you're doing that, do some thinking as well and ditch your 'the personal isn't politcal' tripe. Also an apology for handing me a ptichfork and burning torch with no justification what so ever, wouldn't go amiss.

Louis MacNeice

 

[frogwoman]

an infantile disorder

 

[laptop]

The Facebook Four are set to be expelled again at 2.30.

After that, does the Party dig them up and expel them a third time?

 

[laptop]

I suspect you're confusing "debate" and "mutual reacharound".

??

 

[belboid]

<name removed>

A lot of SWP fulltimers have come and gone in Sheffield, which one is this?

 

[belboid]

Dp

 

[SpineyNorman]

Actually I wasn't needed in this instance as SpineyNorman had already put Frogwoman straight before me.

I wasn't 'putting her straight' - I agreed with what she said and just added in a bit more context.

 

[SpineyNorman]

<name removed>

In addition to the rumours mentioned upthread, there are also some err... compromising pictures of him floating around the net. He wears comrade delta style specs too.

 

[emanymton]

In addition to the rumours mentioned upthread, there are also some err... compromising pictures of him floating around the net. He wears comrade delta style specs too.

Links please, People on SU keep saying Google him, I do and find nothing.

It's the same with Seymour's Facebook page, I am so unless I can't even find him on Facebook.

 

[DotCommunist]

Dp

they've gone too far now

 

[belboid]

Links please, People on SU keep saying Google him, I do and find nothing.

It's the same with Seymour's Facebook page, I am so unless I can't even find him on Facebook.

Just google his name +SWP - you'll find it in a really shitty piece all about the party. I opened the page, but fortunately it took ages to load, giving me enough time to go 'why the fuck do I want to see that?'

 

[emanymton]

"News from Hammersmith:I hear Calinicos is calling for the IDOP motions to be “treated with the contempt they deserve” and that calls from the podium for further expulsions are being met with applause.The Facebook Four are set to be expelled again at 2.30.
The SWP CC Faction has clearly gerrymandered today’s event – but they failed to win a majority among the whole membership. They got 512 supporters compared to the IDOP’s latest figure of 540 as of this morning, with people still joining"

Looks ugly, can't believe people can join/stay in this oufit...

It's all rather odd you quote this directly from socialist unity and then someone quotes you back on the same thread. Makes my brain hurt.

 

[belboid]

Btw, anyone know if MB was on his DC hearing?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Btw, anyone know if MB was on his DC hearing?

Why you ask?

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

For the record, my position is that allegations of rape should not be judged by a party committee but that the complainant should be encouraged to take the matter to the police.

I can see a case for a code of conduct governing non-criminal sexual harassment and for decisions after a member has been convicted, but not for a party committee to judge allegations of rape and serious sexual assault.

I would prefer if someone would be able to go to the police, but belboid made me think about what if they won't or can't and you have to take this in to account. As sihhi said what if someone hasn't got leave to remain in the country so can't go to the police. Doing nothing just wouldn't be acceptable.

This poses the question in one ongoing case that what do you do if the police can't act. Or if the people investigating, in this case the RMT, have a flawed investigation. By the way in this case the RMT would be suspending him and investigating him as his employer, not as his trade union. He is full time and deputy general secretary. A neutral suspension is carried out to protect those involved, including those making the accusations. It isn't acceptable in my view that he wasn't suspended. In this case there are also sexist and misogynist comments in the public domain

 

[tony collins]

It's all rather odd you quote this directly from socialist unity and then someone quotes you back on the same thread. Makes my brain hurt.

It's the internet eating itself. It's like that new channel 4 programme which shows what people do when they watch TV.

 

[SLK]

Seymour's fb status: "disgust, nausea, contempt, rage"

Not really sure what he was expecting to be honest.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Links please, People on SU keep saying Google him, I do and find nothing.

It's the same with Seymour's Facebook page, I am so unless I can't even find him on Facebook.

Don't want to link cos the site's associated with 4chan and comes with all the dodginess that entails, but it's on the SWP entry on encycolpedia dramatica. The article it's a part of, as belboid rightly points out, is one of the least funny 'funny' pages on the entire internet. It's on a par with taffboy's 'funny' EDL site.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Seymour's fb status: "disgust, nausea, contempt, rage"

Not really sure what he was expecting to be honest.

While some may be interested in the emotions he feels when looking in the mirror, I'm more interested in his reaction to the special conference

 

[emanymton]

Don't want to link cos the site's associated with 4chan and comes with all the dodginess that entails, but it's on the SWP entry on encycolpedia dramatica. The article it's a part of, as belboid rightly points out, is one of the least funny 'funny' pages on the entire internet. It's on a par with taffboy's 'funny' EDL site.

Yeah I have now thanks, to be honest I had already found it but didn't think there could be anything real on that page so only give it a very quick look.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

While some may be interested in the emotions he feels when looking in the mirror, I'm more interested in his reaction to the special conference

Thanks, you've brightened my day.

 

[Scribbling S]

Yes the Sheffield case, the JS case is much worse than already described in the Guardian - btw Hi Kavenism, I contacted you on FB about this -, I've since spoken to some Sheffield people: Where it is worse is that the 2 yr suspension for him was real, not theoretical - they really were preparing for him to return as a fulltimer in the full knowledge he had abused members - they really did think 2 yrs of him reading Lindsey German books would make him fit to be around - in charge of - students and young recruits, in the full knowledge of his behavior. More of this story is going to come out (i'm going to give it a go, I am sure others will), and it will look very ugly - like a small scale reenactment of the catholic church, with "troubled" priests shifted from diocese to diocese, and given ineffectual prayer to deal with their "inner demons", while the heirarchy covered up and bamboozled the laity. Thankfully only adults (albeit young ones) involved. At the same time, Callinicos is winding members up to run around shouting "lies" at Nick Cohen - they seem to stupid to understand this means they are calling a woman who was hit by and raped by a party fulltimer a liar as well. Callinicos must know there is more , darker stuff here, so its a kamikaze strategy

 

[butchersapron]

Jen Izaakson @Izaakson
@OakScott It's what you'd guess. CC loyalists crushed the faction. Defend the line or go. Have to accept votes at conference, so must go.

Now, can't tell if she was there or not, or if that's been passed on to her by people that were...

 

[Before Theory]

I saw the fb pictures last year, add those to the proven accusations of rape against him, it is obvious the man is a dangerous sexual predator.

And yet the SWP wants him to work for them again !!!!!

They really are in a parallel universe.

 

[Sean Delaney]

Revolution cancelled due to bad weather

Currently the SWP is in a very weak condition with very few members so the revolution won't be happening this month.

The long term strategy of the SWP is as follows:

Act like insufferable wankers.
Slag off the activities and principles of useful people while being useless.
Take all the fun of everything they are involved in.
Meetings. So many meetings. Oh dear god the meetings.
Keep printing that fucking awful paper.
When the revolution finally happens despite their knack for stagnating genuine popular movements like a fat bloke with a rucksack at the front of a punk gig, they take all the credit. Then they have all the real revolutionaries rounded up and shot and promptly set about rebuilding hierarchy, beuraucracy and oppression until they are much the same as they were before but with more gulags. And more meetings.
Repeat until the sun explodes.

 

[Scribbling S]

The CC , in the shape of Amy Leather, Joseph Choonara and Hanna Dee systematically misled members. Those members who knew about rape and assault were told it was "confidential". Those members who did not know were told it was mysteriously undefined "serious sexist behaviour" . Members who had complained were consequently seen by some of those who weren't "in the know" to be troublemakers drawn by feminism who had caused bother for a popular organiser. Because people were not told - they weren't gathered in a room and given an explanation - some continued inviting him to Party linked social events, to the shock of those who understood the full gravity of the affair. The CC really did think that a weekly visit from an assigned member and a reading list of Lindsey German books would make him fit to return in two years. Anyone who isn't at least threatened with expulsion will feel deep shame about their involvement when this story comes out - which it will.

 

[emanymton]

This has already gone up on SU bit thought I'd post here as well. This is the email sent out to SWP members following the Guardian story.

Dear comrade,

Some of you may have seen an article on the Guardian website today that makes allegations about a disputes committee case in 2011.

The party was approached by the Guardian in advance of the story going out, and we made a statement to them. Only a very small part of it was used, so I am letting you see the whole of it. You will see that we do not accept how the Guardian has framed the issue, and we contest much of the detail.


Charlie Kimber, the party’s national secretary, says, “The SWP strongly contests major elements of this account of the Disputes Committee hearing. The woman concerned brought serious accusations to our attention, we investigated, found against the accused and took prompt action. Those are the facts of this case.

“Fighting for women’s liberation is a central part of the struggle for socialism. We take any issues involving women’s oppression extremely seriously.

“We give a guarantee of confidentiality to everyone involved in such hearings, and therefore we cannot go into full detail. But there was absolutely no cover-up.

“The person accused was removed from the party, and the members of the party heard a full report on the case at our annual conference.

“This report, and a special meeting in the district most affected, brought home the importance of what had happened.

“It is to the credit of our organisation that we investigated this claim thoroughly and took effective action on the basis of the evidence that was presented.”

Pat Stack, the chair of the disputes committee during this case, says, “I simply do not recognise this account of the hearing. For example, we did not ask the questions that are alleged. We are very conscious of how difficult such cases are for the women involved. I am sure that we dealt with the case in a proper way.”

Charlie Kimber adds, “I hope that after the party’s conference we can move forward united. We are going to redouble our fight against this vicious government, against the attacks on jobs, pay, benefits and public services, against the bedroom tax and against privatisation.

“We will continue to work in action with as wide a range of people outside the party as possible. The challenges facing working people across the globe are too urgent for us not to seek to build broader resistance to austerity, fascism and war. And at the centre of that fightback we will continue to argue for a socialist future which abolishes exploitation and tears out the roots of women’s oppression, LGBT oppression, racism and everything else that divides us.”

Solidarity,

Charlie Kimber, SWP national secretary

Can't say I find it a very strong defense.