SWP expulsions and squabbles

[SpineyNorman]

Not in my experience, thoroughly decent organiser who would never ask you to do something that he wasn't prepared to do himself. But I'm sure he's pissed off his fair share of opponents and wouldn't lose much sleep over that.

He pissed me off no end and I certainly didn't see myself as an opponent at the time. Mostly around him deliberately misrepresenting what other people had said when he was speaking, but I guess this isn't really the place for a long discussion over that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Might be a cryptic one - the penis mightier than the sword.

Thanks for saying that so that I didn't have to!

 

[ViolentPanda]

After that, does the Party dig them up and expel them a third time?

I believe that they're given a pseudo-Papal anathematisation.

 

[Fedayn]

And he was of course red baited by the Evening Standard for his role as a union militant. He was rightly proud of that when I knew him.

So was John Prescott when he was an NUS activist........

 

[discokermit]

But I'm sure he's pissed off his fair share of opponents and wouldn't lose much sleep over that.

he's got plenty already to keep him awake.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

So was John Prescott when he was an NUS activist........

Difference being one of them isn't a traitor to his class.

 

[Fedayn]

Difference being one of them isn't a traitor to his class.

And one isn't a possible rapist, which frankly when done against one of your own comrades, or anyone for that matter, is a betrayal of your class.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Everybody has heard of me. Even those who haven't. There's a sense of awe when my name is mentioned - usually in guarded whispers - my reputation as a dangerous subversive provokes both fear and a sense of inadequacy in those who hear or utter it.

Aren't you that racist misogynist bloke I read about on Laurie Penny's twitter feed?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

And one isn't a possible rapist, which frankly when done against one of your own comrades is a betrayal of your class.

One of the results of this mess is that he will now forever be unable to clear his name of that to everyone's satisfaction. Not everyone accused of rape is guilty of course, but doubt about the fairness of the dc process means most people will always assume he did something wrong quite possibly unfairly. I honestly think we'll never know as none of us are privy to the full facts, ironically because the dc will do the decent thing and keep what evidence they heard that convinced them he was no rapist confidential.

 

[sptme]

He's a bit of a tosser though, isn't he? Even if we disregard the allegations.

He was District Organiser for my district when I was a member. Even back then he was quite capable for using emotional blackmail and guilt trips to get you to do things you didn't really want to, wasn't the sort of guy to take no for an answer, though I never got any sense of sexual impropriety from him. He seems to have gotten worse with age from what I've heard but he already had the personality of a bully.

 

[sihhi]

One of the results of this mess is that he will now forever be unable to clear his name of that to everyone's satisfaction.

Whose fault is this? The SWP CC and DC system botching the investigation into and then smearing accusers against him. The SWP CC system and culture he helped sustain for so long.

 

[Scribbling S]

Its maybe even more direct than that, he could have, off his own bat, in 2009 or 2010 or whenever it was, said "I haven't behaved well" and , instead of having that odd conference event with all the cheering and sob story, gone off to work in a regular office for a couple of years. He'd be coming back into the party leadership now. Callinicos wouldn't be trying to save a shrinking party from the dangerous Bob Jessop Conspiracy. The other case would have stayed hidden. Authors of their own destruction, along with the party.

 

[sihhi]

Workers Power have issued a statement

http://www.workerspower.co.uk/2013/03/swp-after-the-conference-the-struggle-must-continue/

The Workers Power ten-point manifesto makes a call for:

5. Control Commission not Disputes Committee
The Disputes Committee should be abolished since it covers up the responsibility of the leading bodies for discipline. Disciplinary measures are the responsibility of the sovereign body and the leading committees it elects but they must then be able to be appealed against to the superior body to the one enacting the measures up to the conference itself. The CC should have the power only to suspend a member. Expulsions should be the sole prerogative of the NC or the conference itself.

In the case of rape or sexual harassment - that would mean expulsion at the very least, it seems the details would probably have to be discussed at Conference which might not necessarily work well, since the National Committee of around 50 is close to and has former members as the Central Committee.

6. Special investigations
The CC or NC might appoint an investigative body to assist it but (a) it should be selected in a way appropriate to the specific case and (b) it should make a recommendation but not a judgement. The latter must be the responsibility of the leading bodies. Major penalties – suspension or expulsion – shall by default have the right to be appealed against to either a control commission elected by conference, or to conference itself. The control commission (the name refers to the fact that it controls or checks the actions of the executive to ensure they are not violations of the members’ rights nor motivated by political convenience) should have the power to suspend any disciplinary action until the next conference.

No6 is about separating investigation from weighing up/judgement. A control commission examining the behaviour of the CC is a solid idea - trying to separate out the concentration of power in the CC.
Although if it is to have weight people shouldn't interchange from one to the other - they have to be serious and distinct not really socialising or being mates with one another as far as possible.

7. Right to caucus
Members of oppressed groups above all women and the racially oppressed, but also LGBT people, youth (under 18), the disabled etc. shall have the right to caucus, i.e. call meetings of all members belonging to the appropriate category to discuss examples of oppressive or discriminatory behaviour or just to encourage greater participation by its members. It must have the right of confidentiality for its discussion though it must make a report of any requests to the appropriate bodies.

No7 is more obvious. But it means going back against the decision Cliff took in the 1980s about Women's Voice and Flame. Is this kind of thing likely?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Workers Power have issued a statement

Thank fuck for that, I'd been a bit concerned about this but now we know the 5th international is on the case we can all rest easy in our beds!

 

[SpineyNorman]

No7 is more obvious. But it means going back against the decision Cliff took in the 1980s about Women's Voice and Flame. Is this kind of thing likely?

I don't think so no. From what my loyalist acquaintances have told me this has been called for by large parts of the opposition and denounced as federalist separatism or something - not just by loyalists but by others in the faction too.

Resigantions appear to have (predictably) begun already. I don't think I've got any of the student swaps from round here on my facebook (this is deliberate on my part!) but my flatmate does and he tells me there have been plenty of TLR resignation letters posted on there this evening.

 

[Jean-Luc]

Workers Power have issued a statement

http://www.workerspower.co.uk/2013/03/swp-after-the-conference-the-struggle-must-continue/

More Bolshevik bullshit. There's a Menshevik perspective here.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Its maybe even more direct than that, he could have, off his own bat, in 2009 or 2010 or whenever it was, said "I haven't behaved well" and , instead of having that odd conference event with all the cheering and sob story, gone off to work in a regular office for a couple of years. He'd be coming back into the party leadership now. Callinicos wouldn't be trying to save a shrinking party from the dangerous Bob Jessop Conspiracy. The other case would have stayed hidden. Authors of their own destruction, along with the party.

And that sounds quite reasonable. Unless he believed he wasn't guilty of the sexual harassment charge, let alone expect a further charge of rape and saw no reason to step away from politics over an affair.

 

[barney_pig]

More Bolshevik bullshit. There's a Menshevik perspective here.

The spgb are not in any possible way a Menshevik party

 

[Jean-Luc]

The spgb are not in any possible way a Menshevik party

But that's what Steve Hedley reportedly claimed at a recent TUSC meeting.

 

[Before Theory]

And that sounds quite reasonable. Unless he believed he wasn't guilty of the sexual harassment charge, let alone expect a further charge of rape and saw no reason to step away from politics over an affair.

So why was he forced to resign from the National Secretary position by the rest of the CC in 2011 ?

How likely is it that Callinicos and co would have made him take that step over a mere affair if they didn't have evidence of something much worse. ?

Use your brain apology boy, stop defending the indefensible.

 

[two sheds]

Interesting little diversion via Wiki, ta: hadn't realised 'Bolsheviks' came originally from disagreement between Lenin and Martov. Martov's supporters were minority and called "Mensheviks" from меньшинство (men'shinstvo, "minority"), whereas Lenin's were known as "Bolsheviks", from bol'shinstvo ("majority").

Lenin argued for a small party of professional revolutionaries with a large fringe of non-party sympathizers and supporters, whereas Martov believed it was better to have a large party of activists with broad representation.

You wouldn't call SWP a Menshevik party then

Martov's proposal was accepted by the majority of the delegates. After several delegates, including representatives of the Jewish Bund, stormed out of the Congress in protest for unrelated reasons, Lenin's supporters won a slight majority, which was reflected in the composition of the Central Committee and the other central Party organs elected at the Congress. That was also the reason behind the naming of the factions. (It was later hypothesized that Lenin had purposely offended some of the delegates in order to have them leave the meeting in protest, giving him a majority.) Despite the outcome of the congress, the following years saw the Mensheviks gathering considerable support among regular Social Democrats and effectively building up a parallel party organization.

Yes I know you all know this. I'm posting it for my benefit.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Anyone else hearing that Hannah Dee has been kicked off the CC and had her party employment terminated?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Oooh, wait, I have a source

http://sovietgoonboy.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/order-prevails-in-vauxhall/

 

[Idris2002]

I seriously hope that this bullshit backfires on Callinicos in the context of his academic employment.

 

[Jean-Luc]

Oooh, wait, I have a source
http://sovietgoonboy.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/order-prevails-in-vauxhall/

I notice that the blogger makes this point in relation to the Disputes Committee:

If a woman comrade makes an allegation of rape, the DC should gently explain that they aren’t in a position to hold a rape investigation, and should encourage her to go to a rape crisis centre and/or the police. The DC, as something analogous to a professional ethics body, is only competent to rule on whether or not an individual is fit to be a member of the party, or at least to hold a leading role in it.

 

[butchersapron]

I notice that the blogger makes this point in relation to the Disputes Committee:

Why don't you read the thread? Or at least the more recent bits?

 

[Jean-Luc]

Why don't you read the thread? Or at least the more recent bits?

Yes, I did notice that somebody had argued that:

allegations of rape should not be judged by a party committee but that the complainant should be encouraged to take the matter to the police.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I notice that the blogger makes this point in relation to the Disputes Committee:

Do you think that blog would say that the personal isn't political? If not - as is pretty obvious - then why are posting it as some sort of support for your nonsense?

Louis MacNeice

p.s. still no sign of an apology for your lynch mob comment...cat got your tongue?

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, I did notice that somebody had argued that:

You didn't notice anyone saying that a party was the correct body to judge allegations of rape - did you? The sheer arrogance involved in coming onto the end of a thread and insisting that everyone is actually arguing what you have decided that they have is staggering - staggering and insulting.

 

[butchersapron]

Ian Birchall, soft faction member today, CC member 1995: "And I shall recommend Comrade Tulayev rather than King Lear to a new SWP member." As what, an instruction manual?