SWP expulsions and squabbles

[bolshiebhoy]

are any of them really for a Syriza light? The term looks to be more used as a lazy insult by big Al. Simply pointring out that the party made a daft sectarian error in not voting for Syriza is hardly the same as calling for a new organisation built along the same lines as it.

I honestly think they do belboid old chap. The vote is a tactical question and fine people can argue that one on it's merits, although I do think there was inordinate bullying of Antasyra to accept Syrizas god given right to every left vote. But Seymour's arguments went deeper, they echoed some of the more explicit formulations by Rees and Bambery which described Syriza as left centrist when it's clearly nothing of the sort. Seymour danced around the subject but he definitely played up the oh who knows what evolution Syriza will take and isn't it cool that it's such an open ended experiment in a fusion of revolutionary and reformist currents. Far too much. When the question of who runs Syriza and how it would react to being in office was settled long ago.

 

[sihhi]

I like Newman's blog for its madness.

This morning in addition to commending a whole host of crappy liberal blogs
including this one for right-wing Labour arsehole Damian McBride (tried to pull a Nixon and spread total lies about oppositions politicians before he was found out) http://dpmcbride.tumblr.com

there's a plug for a magazine telling us how important art under the Soviet purges is.

 

[articul8]

Far too much. When the question of who runs Syriza and how it would react to being in office was settled long ago.

And I assume it's on the basis of this infallible crystal ball of yours that you decided to join the Labour party?

 

[imposs1904]

So the suggestion is Bergfeld has resigned? Can't say that's totally surprising if true.

For someone in the Swindon Labour Party you seem to know a lot about members who joined after you left the SWP, and who live on the other side of the country.

 

[sihhi]

I imagine that there are many people that just take on face value what the transcript said, that the vote was whether or not to accept the report of the DC.

But it's done in a context - imposed from above - of not being able to discuss the wrongs over the investigation into the case, lest it impinge on confidentiality issues. Several times in the transcript you see people speaking being wound up on this basis. Obviously people at the meeting who didn't know much about the case etc. didn't know it was going to be leaked.

I think I'm saying the SWP membership who did vote to accept have been 'psychologically pressured' or 'played' encouraged not to carry on the discussion for fear of harming the status of women in the party, by this discussion eventually letting the identities of the two accusing women (particularly W's name) out.

 

[cesare]

But it's done in a context - imposed from above - of not being able to discuss the wrongs over the investigation into the case, lest it impinge on confidentiality issues. Several times in the transcript you see people speaking being wound up on this basis. Obviously people at the meeting who didn't know much about the case etc. didn't know it was going to be leaked.

I think I'm saying the SWP membership who did vote to accept have been 'psychologically pressured' or 'played' encouraged not to carry on the discussion for fear of harming the status of women in the party, by this discussion eventually letting the identities of the two accusing women (particularly W's name) out.

Do you know whether they were voting on the content of the DC's report (redacted for confidentiality) or just the outcome i.e. not proven/

 

[sihhi]

Do you know whether they were voting on the content of the DC's report (redacted for confidentiality) or just the outcome i.e. not proven/

It's the whole "report of the disputes committee 2012" which includes three cases:

Bristolian Alpha expelled for domestic violence.
Beta suspended for 6 months for a fight in a nightclub, then 6 months more for breaching that suspension.
CC member Delta suspended from party activity during the investigation but returned to active service once the investigation is completed.

You vote to accept or reject the report, what would happen next I don't know - a new DC slate and reinvestigation I don't know.

 

[The39thStep]

I think this is a good point and would suggest that the TU left offers leading SWP activists training or retraining on these areas and makes it a condition of future working together.

yeah right

 

[The39thStep]

I'd be enormously surprised if anything came of it in terms of orchestrated attempts to remove SWP trade unions from branch positions and the like.

UAF could be an issue though, if various "names" and/or unions start making a fuss.

heaven help any other lefty organisation that has to deal with a similar situation

 

[cesare]

It's the whole "report of the disputes committee 2012" which includes three cases:

Bristolian Alpha expelled for domestic violence.
Beta suspended for 6 months for a fight in a nightclub, then 6 months more for breaching that suspension.
CC member Delta suspended from party activity during the investigation but returned to active service once the investigation is completed.

You vote to accept or reject the report, what would happen next I don't know - a new DC slate and reinvestigation I don't know.

Ta. I just wondered what amount of detail there was in the (redacted for confidentiality) report.

 

[sihhi]

heaven help any other lefty organisation that has to deal with a similar situation

Don't worry, the ire will be directed at "small" "extreme" left wing and republican parties, Labour who backed those who covered up 'Trottergate' in Hackney will be immune.

 

[sihhi]

Ta. I just wondered what amount of detail there was in the (redacted for confidentiality) report.

I have no idea of the detail, I suspect that the delegates saw very little at all hence why W's supporters had to speak from the floor.

 

[cesare]

I have no idea of the detail, I suspect that the delegates saw very little at all hence why W's supporters had to speak from the floor.

I think you're probably right. Difficult call for them to make - to vote on whether or not to accept a report where you don't know what it actually contains (apart from what's presented at Conference and what comes out as a result of questioning at same Conference).

 

[bolshiebhoy]

For someone in the Swindon Labour Party you seem to know a lot about members who joined after you left the SWP, and who live on the other side of the country.

Lol. Well the train service to London is quite frequent

And Bergfeld's meeting at Marxism last year was the only one I've ever walked out of, not counting cases of poor air conditioning or toilet breaks. He's far too hip and smug for an old timer like me.

 

[emanymton]

May I ask your party allegiances?

I was in the SWP at the time. Now I am a soclaist without a home.

 

[imposs1904]

Lol. Well the train service to London is quite frequent

And Bergfeld's meeting at Marxism last year was the only one I've ever walked out of, not counting cases of poor air conditioning or toilet breaks. He's far too hip and smug for an old timer like me.

what was the meeting? it's probably on the swptv youtube channel.

eta: In his favour he does disproves that line of "politics is showbiz for ugly people".

 

[butchersapron]

Got something a little odd concerning him to post when I get home shortly.

 

[butchersapron]

Right, first of this month i saved a review of Andrew Kliman's book The Failure of Capitalist Production to read later. Just read it on the train now. Two things struck me 1) the review was appalling and misunderstood Kliman and 2) the reviewer didn't think the USSR was capitalist. Scrolled to the top to check who the author was and what tradition they came from - author mark bergfeld (i had never heard of him until this morning). Just went to the site to check and the author has now been changed to Matthew Wood. Harmless mistake or realisation of what it would open him up to? And he has reviewed books for them before, possibly tellingly Lar Lih on Lenin.

 

[frogwoman]

Right, first of this month i saved a review of Andrew Kliman's book The Failure of Capitalist Production to read later. Just read it on the train now. Two things struck me 1) the review was appalling and misunderstood Kliman and 2) the reviewer didn't think the USSR was capitalist. Scrolled to the top to check who the author was and what tradition they came from - author mark bergfeld (i had never heard of him until this morning). Just went to the site to check and the author has now been changed to Matthew Wood. Harmless mistake or realisation of what it would open him up to? And he has reviewed books for them before, possibly tellingly Lar Lih on Lenin.

I thought the swp thought the USSR was capitalist?

 

[butchersapron]

They do - that's why i'm suggesting it's a little odd.

 

[sihhi]

Right, first of this month i saved a review of Andrew Kliman's book The Failure of Capitalist Production to read later. Just read it on the train now. Two things struck me 1) the review was appalling and misunderstood Kliman and 2) the reviewer didn't think the USSR was capitalist. Scrolled to the top to check who the author was and what tradition they came from - author mark bergfeld (i had never heard of him until this morning). Just went to the site to check and the author has now been changed to Matthew Wood. Harmless mistake or realisation of what it would open him up to? And he has reviewed books for them before, possibly tellingly Lar Lih on Lenin.

Do you remember a couple of years ago the UNITE cabin crew strike against BA. When SWP members swarmed the talks and allowed Willie Walsh to get off early for the day?
Well all the SWP were upstairs in the building - minimum security on a Sunday. It was left to Mark Bergfeld outside late from the RTW conference to take questions from BBC News 24 guy.

Someone retold it to me on the lines of

Q: Do you realise the talks have been suspended because of your party's actions?
Mark: I should hope so.
Q: Do you want to see a settlement to this dispute?
Mark: We want to see the cabin crew win.
Q: Do you think this will be more likely after today?
Mark: We want to see the cabin crew win.
Q: Back to the studio.

 

[belboid]

Right, first of this month i saved a review of Andrew Kliman's book The Failure of Capitalist Production to read later. Just read it on the train now. Two things struck me 1) the review was appalling and misunderstood Kliman and 2) the reviewer didn't think the USSR was capitalist. Scrolled to the top to check who the author was and what tradition they came from - author mark bergfeld (i had never heard of him until this morning). Just went to the site to check and the author has now been changed to Matthew Wood. Harmless mistake or realisation of what it would open him up to? And he has reviewed books for them before, possibly tellingly Lar Lih on Lenin.

hmm, they each have a different MA topoic listed, which would be too easily checked to fib about, I'd have thought. Wood's only other review is of a Kieran (Irish SWP) Allen book, tho

 

[emanymton]

Right, first of this month i saved a review of Andrew Kliman's book The Failure of Capitalist Production to read later. Just read it on the train now. Two things struck me 1) the review was appalling and misunderstood Kliman and 2) the reviewer didn't think the USSR was capitalist. Scrolled to the top to check who the author was and what tradition they came from - author mark bergfeld (i had never heard of him until this morning). Just went to the site to check and the author has now been changed to Matthew Wood. Harmless mistake or realisation of what it would open him up to? And he has reviewed books for them before, possibly tellingly Lar Lih on Lenin.

Matthew Wood has also reviewed previously, so may guess is website cock up. But the only way to be sure is for you to read all the reviews and do a thorough analysis of the writing styles.

 

[butchersapron]

Do you remember a couple of years ago the UNITE cabin crew strike against BA. When SWP members swarmed the talks and allowed Willie Walsh to get off early for the day?
Well all the SWP were upstairs in the building - minimum security on a Sunday. It was left to Mark Bergfeld outside late from the RTW conference to take questions from BBC News 24 guy.

Someone retold it to me on the lines of

Q: Do you realise the talks have been suspended because of your party's actions?
Mark: I should hope so.
Q: Do you want to see a settlement to this dispute?
Mark: We want to see the cabin crew win.
Q: Do you think this will be more likely after today?
Mark: We want to see the cabin crew win.
Q: Back to the studio.

I do, and i think may have seen that interview at the time to, or on the sunday evening - think we had a moan about it on here or matb.

 

[belboid]

"Certainly, it is not necessarily wrong to view the USSR as a capitalist state, but it is curious and misleading to not even acknowledge the presence of debate around the subject." (from the review of Kieran Allen). I think we can safely say they are different people.

 

[butchersapron]

hmm, they each have a different MA topoic listed, which would be too easily checked to fib about, I'd have thought. Wood's only other review is of a Kieran (Irish SWP) Allen book, tho

#
But if they've agreed to say that MH did it when MB did that wouldn't matter.

Matthew Wood has also reviewed previously, so may guess is website cock up. But the only way to be sure is for you to read all the reviews and do a thorough analysis of the writing styles.

Fuck that. But only one of the two has a degree partially in economics - the other one is into philosophy shit.

 

[butchersapron]

"Certainly, it is not necessarily wrong to view the USSR as a capitalist state, but it is curious and misleading to not even acknowledge the presence of debate around the subject." (from the review of Kieran Allen). I think we can safely say they are different people.

I wasn't suggesting that they were the same person but that one may well have agreed to say they wrote it when they didn't. It may well have been simple cock-up though. And anyway, that quote doesn't contradict the claim in the Kliman review that the USSR wasn't capitalist does it?

 

[emanymton]

Anyone know if it is possible to get hold of someone's MA thesis? I am actually quite interested in reading Woods.

 

[emanymton]

Fuck that. But only one of the two has a degree partially in economics - the other one is into philosophy shit.

Lazy bugger.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

They do - that's why i'm suggesting it's a little odd.

Quite. Order of lenin to butchers if this proves correct!