Star Trek: Picard [spoilers]

[BoxRoom]

No one's supposed to watch season 2!

 

[T & P]

Wesley Crusher? You saw season 2, right?

Yes but I don’t remember anything about that particular issue. But then I disliked the season so much I guess I stopped paying attention to it.

 

[Karl Masks]

Yes but I don’t remember anything about that particular issue. But then I disliked the season so much I guess I stopped paying attention to it.

At the end of TNG he went to have space adventures with the Traveller.

Then he appears at the end of Picard season 2 in a tenuous connection to classic Trek favourite, Assignment Earth wherein a human called Gary Seven works to stop a plot to foil the launch of a spaceship. Wesley Crusher is his boss

 

[T & P]

It’s a bitter irony that after the studio had announced this will be the last ever season of Picard. Not only they’ve properly found their stride in this final season, but are delivering a highly satisfying product that not only pisses all over its previous seasons, but is also far more enjoyable than most other current and recent Star Trek series out there. A welcome antidote to the latter seasons of Discovery AFAIAC.

 

[Karl Masks]

yes this is what it should have been all along. Two seasons of utter drivel and they manage to pull this out the bag. Oh well

 

[8ball]

yes this is what it should have been all along. Two seasons of utter drivel and they manage to pull this out the bag. Oh well

I think sometimes when you're making something, it's pretty hard to tell whether the result will be any good.
I doubt they did two bad seasons on purpose.

So would you recommend giving it a go from beginning of season 3 (I have a free trial on at the moment)?

 

[T & P]

I think sometimes when you're making something, it's pretty hard to tell whether the result will be any good.
I doubt they did two bad seasons on purpose.

So would you recommend giving it a go from beginning of season 3 (I have a free trial on at the moment)?

There isn’t seem to be a particularly strong intention of a coherent story arc between the seasons. A bit like the recent Star Wars sequel trilogy. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve given each season to a different set of writers/ directors and told them do what they please. It certainly feels that way.

 

[Karl Masks]

I think sometimes when you're making something, it's pretty hard to tell whether the result will be any good.
I doubt they did two bad seasons on purpose.

So would you recommend giving it a go from beginning of season 3 (I have a free trial on at the moment)?

make it so!

 

[Dandred]

yes this is what it should have been all along. Two seasons of utter drivel and they manage to pull this out the bag. Oh well

Beard that did it.

 

[Karl Masks]

Beard that did it.

To beardly go

 

[Karl Masks]

Another corker. Didn't expect that character to return! My goodness.

Are we supposed to think Jack is secretly a Changeling? Try explaining that to mum and dad!

TBH i find it a bit weird that Seven is only a commander given that she was hyper competent on Voyager and fully capable of running a starship on herself. Still at least she learned to swear

 

[strung out]

Seven only joined Starfleet between the end of the last season and this one I think, after being a Fenris Ranger, so getting to commander already is pretty impressive!

 

[T & P]

This is really bloody good, isn’t it?

 

[moochedit]

Another corker. Didn't expect that character to return! My goodness.

Are we supposed to think Jack is secretly a Changeling? Try explaining that to mum and dad!

TBH i find it a bit weird that Seven is only a commander given that she was hyper competent on Voyager and fully capable of running a starship on herself. Still at least she learned to swear

Not sure if "jack" is a changling or something else but it does look like he is not human?

 

[moochedit]

Glad the raffi/worf story has finally linked up with main story at the end.

 

[8ball]

Oh fuck - I’m only on episode 2 - going well, but the villain on the big ship’s opening sentence has just made me facepalm almost hard enough to rage-quit (willing to bet it has been brought up somewhere earlier on this thread too).

 

[T & P]

Oh fuck - I’m only on episode 2 - going well, but the villain on the big ship’s opening sentence has just made me facepalm almost hard enough to rage-quit (willing to bet it has been brought up somewhere earlier on this thread too).

Honestly, shit gets real in the most enjoyable way from now on. And if you think episode 3 is brilliantly enjoyable, as you will undoubtedly do unless you’re a proper wrong’un, you’ll be down for an even bigger treat with eps 4 & 5.

As thrilling sci-fi Star Trek action goes, episodes 3-5 are Next Generation vintage for me, and not just because of the legacy characters that show up.

 

[8ball]

Honestly, shit gets real in the most enjoyable way from now on. And if you think episode 3 is brilliantly enjoyable, as you will undoubtedly do unless you’re a proper wrong’un, you’ll be down for an even bigger treat with eps 4 & 5.

As thrilling sci-fi Star Trek action goes, episodes 3-5 are Next Generation vintage for me, and not just because of the legacy characters that show up.

The “it’s the afternoon in Sol system, isn’t it?” has almost ruined things for me, and so far I’m mostly warming to Shaw, who is pointing out the plot points that don’t make sense so that I don’t have to.

Will persist, though…

Edit: Worf!!

Edit2: And I just twigged that the villain is Honey Bunny from Pulp Fiction.

 

[T & P]

The “it’s the afternoon in Sol system, isn’t it?” has almost ruined things for me, and so far I’m mostly warming to Shaw, who is pointing out the plot points that don’t make sense so that I don’t have to.

Will persist, though…

I’m almost ashamed to admit I don’t know what you’re referring to in your first sentence. My memory gets worse by the week, and is extra useless if I watch anything whist having had a couple of drinks. I keep feeling that I must be missing supposedly meaningful references and connections between some of the plot lines in current series of ST and the happenings in legacy series, or even previous seasons of any of these reboot series.

I guess that’s partially why I lost interest in the latter seasons of Discovery. Too much tortured childhood drama and overtly mind blowing parallel universe evil twin paradoxes for my liking, in that kind of show at least.

 

[8ball]

I’m almost ashamed to admit I don’t know what you’re referring to in your first sentence. My memory gets worse by the week, and is extra useless if I watch anything whist having had a couple of drinks. I keep feeling that I must be missing supposedly meaningful references and connections between some of the plot lines in current series of ST and the happenings in legacy series, or even previous seasons of any of these reboot series.

I guess that’s partially why I lost interest in the latter seasons of Discovery. Too much tortured childhood drama and overtly mind blowing parallel universe evil twin paradoxes for my liking, in that kind of show at least.

Honey Bunny first says “Good Afternoon - it’s the afternoon in the Sol system, isn’t it?”.

Which should have led to at least one writer and editor being sacked. It’s always afternoon somewhere on Earth, and it makes even less sense when applied to an entire solar system.

Admittedly a throwaway line, but belies a lack of care for the genre, the viewers, and for reality.

 

[T & P]

Honey Bunny first says “Good Afternoon - it’s the afternoon in the Sol system, isn’t it?”.

Which should have led to at least one writer and editor being sacked. It’s always afternoon somewhere on Earth, and it makes even less sense when applied to an entire solar system.

Admittedly a throwaway line, but belies a lack of care for the genre, the viewers, and for reality.

You could be overthinking the significance of that particular plot hole, though. Imo it seldom pays to analyse the plausibility and consistency of such sci-fi shows too deeply. And it could still be right, anyway. Wouldn’t the Federation fleet on missions in deep space use a unified time zone, just like Navy vessels do?

Plenty of more glaring plot holes in Star Trek to be found, such as the infamous one regarding the away teams sent to perilous missions on alien worlds almost exclusively consisting the top brass on the ship, instead of sending five rank and file privates as any army in the world would do. Or ships banking left or right in microgravity when trying to do a sharp exit, as if they were affected by centrifugal forces.

 

[8ball]

You could be overthinking the significance of that particular plot hole, though. Imo it seldom pays to analyse the plausibility and consistency of such sci-fi shows too deeply. And it could still be right, anyway. Wouldn’t the Federation fleet on missions in deep space use a unified time zone, just like Navy vessels do?

Plenty of more glaring plot holes in Star Trek to be found, such as the infamous one regarding the away teams sent to perilous missions on alien worlds almost exclusively consisting the top brass on the ship, instead of sending five rank and file privates as any army in the world would do. Or ships banking left or right in microgravity when trying to do a sharp exit, as if they were affected by centrifugal forces.

The ones you mention are Star Trek staples that we all see kind of fondly as quirks of the series, though (like pyrotechnics going off on the bridge no matter where the ship has been hit).

A version of the clanger I mentioned is somewhere in the first couple of chapters of every “how not to write Sci Fi” book out there. Hopefully was chucked in there to win a bet.

Enjoying ep 3 so far, though.

 

[T & P]

The ones you mention are Star Trek staples that we all see kind of fondly as quirks of the series, though (like pyrotechnics going off on the bridge no matter where the ship has been hit).

A version of the clanger I mentioned is somewhere in the first couple of chapters of every “how not to write Sci Fi” book out there. Hopefully was chucked in there to win a bet.

Enjoying ep 3 so far, though.

Ultimately I try to ignore such plot holes if it’s a fantasy escapism sci-fi film or series that doesn’t sell itself on scientific accuracy. I’d have far a bigger issue if it was a Christopher Nolan effort.

Different universe, but on this subject I often think at night, when you’re just about to fall asleep, about similar massive clangers in Star Wars. And not just about inconsistencies between the recent trilogies and the original ones, but within each of the legacy films.

For instance, everyone used to talk about the Death Star’s laughable vulnerability as the biggest plot hole in A New Hope (until recently addressed by Rogue One). But I always found equally preposterous the fact that the Death Star Plans were data-light enough to be burned into a floppy disk-sized tape, which could have been hidden in countless of crevices and compartments aboard Leia’s ship- therefore it would have taken weeks for the Empire to confidently say they were no longer on board, not just a couple of hours.

And if the Empire has the technology to instantly establish there were no life signs in the escape pod C-3PO and R-2 did a runner in (and why would the officer tell the gunner not to shoot it? I can’t imagine the cost of a single laser shot would bankrupt the Empire), how the fuck did they fail to detect later on that the Millennium Falcon was carrying three humans and a big chunky Wookie? Never mind the fact that they had actually been chasing and firing on one of their TIE fighters for several minutes beforehand.

But then, why would you spoil your enjoyment of such films and series with logic?

 

[8ball]

Ultimately I try to ignore such plot holes if it’s a fantasy escapism sci-fi film or series that doesn’t sell itself on scientific accuracy.

Different universe, but on this subject I often think at night, when you’re just about to fall asleep, about similar massive clangers in Star Wars. And not just about inconsistencies between the recent trilogies and the original ones.

For instance, everyone used to talk about the Death Star’s laughable vulnerability as the biggest plot hole in A New Hope (until recently addressed by Rogue One). But I always found equally preposterous the fact that the Death Star Plans were data-light enough to be burned into a floppy disk-sized tape, which could have been hidden in countless of crevices and compartments aboard Leia’s ship- therefore it would have taken weeks for the Empire to confidently say they were no longer on board.

And if the Empire has the technology to instantly establish there were no life signs in the escape pod C-3PO and R-2 did a runner in (and why would the officer tell the gunner not to shoot it? I can’t imagine the cost of a single laser shot would bankrupt the Empire), how the fuck did they fail to detect later on that the Millennium Falcon was carrying three humans and a big chunky Wookie? Never mind the fact that they had actually been chasing and firing on one of their TIE fighters for several minutes beforehand.

But then, why would you spoil your enjoyment of such films and series with logic?

Tl;dr answer is that Star Wars has different established and allowable logic holes to Star Trek.

Star Wars is a Western set to a space backdrop - there is almost no consistent physics going on. Star Trek has a physics which is different to ours in many ways, with a space-time that works on the macro level similarly to how ours works on the classical level, but with certain understood exceptions (transporters, warp drive and space having a “right way up” being the ones that spring most readily to mind).

Being fair, that was just one mis-step that I pointed out - was a little jarring but enjoying the series more than the first season so far.

 

[T & P]

Whereas not necessarily a plot hole, one thing I keep finding hard to reconcile with Star Trek is that for a supposedly super enlightened society, Starfleet command are as much a bunch of narrow minded arseholes as any top brass of any government today

 

[moochedit]

Honey Bunny first says “Good Afternoon - it’s the afternoon in the Sol system, isn’t it?”.

Which should have led to at least one writer and editor being sacked. It’s always afternoon somewhere on Earth, and it makes even less sense when applied to an entire solar system.

Admittedly a throwaway line, but belies a lack of care for the genre, the viewers, and for reality.

I vaguely remember an episode of voyager where someone was in charge of the bridge on "night shift"

As T & P said though starfleet probably has a standard time zone like GMT on their ships which would make sense and the "honey bunny" may know that.

Do you mean "honey bunny" from pulp fiction?

 

[8ball]

I vaguely remember an episode of voyager where someone was in charge of the bridge on "night shift"

As T & P said though starfleet probably has a standard time zone like GMT on their ships which would make sense and the "honey bunny" may know that.

Do you mean "honey bunny" from pulp fiction?

There may well be a standard time zone like UTC, but “afternoon”, if it means anything at all, will be relative to just one point on, or in close proximity to, one or more planets.

Just like 0300 UTC will be afternoon on Earth in the UTC +11 timezone, but def not in Paris or London.

And yes - that Honey Bunny.

I think there may be an artificial day/night cycle on individual ships that are out of orbit. It would seem to make more sense to duplicate functions on a ship so that everyone could have their own cycle free of night shifts as such.
That way, it’s always daytime lighting frequencies used when it’s your work shift and simultaneously different lighting for folk on the other side of the ship who are having their downtime.

 

[Dandred]

This just keeps getting better and better.

 

[editor]

I'm REALLY enjoying this. Great writing.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Surprisingly alright. I find myself actually looking forward to it.