Spanish Political News

[Pickman's model]

Because it is "Spanish political news". It is happening in Spain.

Do you have a political analysis or position on what is happening or do you only do the troll thing?

yes.

 

[Pickman's model]

The election campaign has started here for the 21st of december. The spanish government may still ban some of the parties from participating. The electoral board prohibited a peaceful protest in front of a town hall organized by grandparents who wear yellow (the colour for solidarity with the catalan political prisoners), they also banned a yellow fountain in Barcelona but allowed a neo nazi group to march on the CUP headquarters while they were having an assembly. There have been hundreds of violent assaults after every unionist march. At the CUP headquarters several hundred anti-fascists turned up to see off 30 scum giving fascist salutes.

Rajoy personally telephoned a "spanish" victim of catalan terror the other day after they were interviewed on the telecinco TV channel, claiming that their balcony had been attacked with fire for showing a spanish flag. It turns out that A. They are members of a nazi organization. B. They haven't reported this "attack" to the police. C. One of these "victims" is the man who was threatening pensioners on a mountain last week (I posted a video of it) and D. They have been setting fire to catalan flags in front of the mayor's house in their town and their son attacked a family putting up posters a few days ago.

have you any analysis?

 

[Pickman's model]

Albano Dante Fachin, the Podemos leader in Catalonia who was recently deposed by Pablo Iglesias, leader of the Spanish mother party in Madrid, has summed up what is at stake with the catalan elections this 21st december and why the non independentista left should vote "Independentista" and NOT what is left of Podemos/Comuns in Catalonia.

His points are the following: (More or less translated from his speech in the video below. I have only done the first 5 minutes, if anyone is interested I'll do the rest)

He has always been critical of aspects of the process in the catalan parliament and admits that the independence of Catalonia is not his objective, that's why he was in Podemos, to fight for a plurinational Spain that would leave behind the corruption of the PP, the King and the regime of 78.

So why vote Independence now in this election?

Because it is the biggest blow that can be levelled at Rajoy. On the 1st of october in Catalonia it was clearly shown that anyone, in Andalusia, in Madrid or in Galicia who opposed Rajoy or the Francoist imposed king would be "attacked/beaten up". If you are independentista the state will attack you but if you are republican or federalist they will use violence against you, too. In this context it is essential to give a clear response in order to defeat Rajoy and his use of violence. The most dignified result at this moment in time would be a victory in the election for "Independence". It's not about being independentista or non independentista, it's about being a democrat. On the 1st of october the international media showed our neighbours, young and old, Independentistas and people who are not, being brutally beaten for their desire to vote. Now those same international media will be watching the night of the election and it is vital that it is shown that the people have dignity and that no corrupt politician or imposed king can impose their will with batons.
I will vote independentista...because if they don't win the majority the big winner will be Rajoy and his corrupt party. Rajoy will come on TV and boast he has beaten the independentistas but be careful as they won't be the only defeated, it will include everyone who has defended the right to vote. He will have defeated all those who want real change like we demanded in the public squares on the 15M movement.
I am not surprised that the PP, PSOE and ciutadans support the regime of 78 but I am sad to see Podemos' position. I am surpirised that a formation that came to take on the regime of 78 has adopted such a terrible position. (they are sitting on the fence which only strengthens the right) I believe that every vote for Podemos/Comuns will be a vote that favours Rajoy, whether we like it or not those votes will be counted as votes against what the people did on the 1st of october. Podemos have said we have to "move on". How can the people who came from the 15M movement say that now? When we have just seen the largest act of democratic dignity in Spain in the last decades. There is something that worries me more, they say they fight for an agreed referendum, that would be magnificent but unfortunately any vote for Podemos/Comuns will weaken that possibility as their votes will counted as "against" and the repression will also intensify. Only the strength of the people can obtain an agreed referendum.

have you any analysis?

 

[Pickman's model]

Forgot to mention that the spanish army are doing manouvres in Catalonia during the election campaign.
This photo was taken down the road from me yesterday and shows the totally normal every day situation of having a soldier on a rooftop in the middle of town with a bazooka.

During the election campaign...

Spain is different

and beyond a throwaway sentence, have you an analysis?

 

[Pickman's model]

This one is funny. Town halls and public buildings have been prohibited by law from showing solidarity with the political prisoners, so a way round that is to hang up new posters which read "you know what I mean". They are going up everywhere.

and your analysis of this is...

 

[Pickman's model]

Two tweets. First the campaign to paint the town yellow as the colour of support for the political prisoners which has been prohibited from public buildings and squares by the electoral board, who on the other hand, allow fascist marches against independentista party HQ's. The second tweet photo is a fascist patrol who took down yellow ribbons in a neighbourhood of Barcelona. By its nature, the independentista movement still refuses to react to such activity. That's why the spanish press are desperate and have to resort to making shit up in order to attack the Catalans. It makes my blood boil to not see these fascists beaten to a pulp.

it makes my blood boil to see so many posts without any analysis

 

[Pickman's model]

An anecdotal piece of news this week. There was a fight in a bar in Lerida which resulted in the death of a hell's angel who is a known falangist fascist sympathiser. The lying spanish press latched onto the story gleefully claiming that the reason "he" was attacked was because he was wearing spanish flag braces. Killed for being spanish they say, which is just crass propaganda. It turns out that the guy arrested for his death is from the squatter movement and spent time in prison for leaving a policemen tetraplegic during an eviction in Barcelona in 2006. A documentary was made which alleged that he was framed at the time. So the spanish press are selling this story as a political attack by the left on a normal spanish guy. Photos of the victim blandishing a knife and posing with neo nazis have been supressed in internet but have gone viral on twitter. (see spoiler below)

It also turns out that the accused "Squatter" who has the stereotypical dreads and all the usual crusty decorations, is surprise surprise, a rich kid from the upper middle classes, whose father is/was an admiral in the Chilean navy and was on Pinochet's side during the murderous coup.

My guess is that it could have been a drugs related fight that has been manipulated by a press that is desperate for stories to demonize the left and indirectly the catalan independence process while stoking up the extreme right. Personally I refuse to believe that rich kids, from extreme right wing parents, who choose to "slum it" in the Squatter movement for a few years are even remotely progressive.

Spoiler

yeh. but where's your analysis?

 

[butchersapron]

I really do recommend people take the time to read that article published in viewpoint that i linked to this morning - probably the best i've read on this. Comprehensive, thorough and realistic.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

No I don't because I'm not and there is nothing on this thread to support your surrealist claim. Back up your argument with proof. Which part reads as "someone working for the extreme right? What you say is stupid.

Which part is trying to discredit any belief in the extreme Left?

Cheers!

 

[Stanley Edwards]

I really do recommend people take the time to read that article published in viewpoint that i linked to this morning - probably the best i've read on this. Comprehensive, thorough and realistic.

The opening paragraph was such bullshit, I didn't bother going any farther.

 

[redsquirrel]

I really do recommend people take the time to read that article published in viewpoint that i linked to this morning - probably the best i've read on this. Comprehensive, thorough and realistic.

Really comprehensive. Read through it once but I think I'll have to go back and re-read to make sure I've got everything. Cheers for the link.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I really do recommend people take the time to read that article published in viewpoint that i linked to this morning - probably the best i've read on this. Comprehensive, thorough and realistic.

I like this link better than previous stuff. I've read two thirds. Need to read all of it again, and get to the end, and then digest it because it is written in a style that is designed to reach a "select" few, who have read "Don Quixote" and not a broader audience. Without going into the politics of it yet, one thing that strikes me is his coldness about standing "aloof" while his friend showed solidarity with the people.
He says:

I saw one hundred military police in riot gear storm an election point and beat up voters, as well as a friend who had travelled from Madrid to put his body on the line in the protection of the referendum.

From that I presume that "he" didn't put his body on the line and merely watched. That is a failing for anyone who was a witness on that historic day. How could he not link arms with the people and his own friend? I was there on the day and it was so emotionally charged and tense that non solidarity was not an option. It was a massive show of dignity in the face of state violence that I will never forget. 90 year olds, applauded by all as they limped up to exercise their right to "vote", all under the threat of imminent and extreme brutality, as everyone knew. Anyone standing nearby on the sidelines needs to be questioned about the strengths of their "beliefs".

I'll deal with the content later. As you can see from the translation I did of Fachin previoulsy, I am not a great fan of the Podemites and their fence sitting, at what is "the moment of truth" for Spanish democracy, buggers all belief.

 

[rioted]

it makes my blood boil to see so many posts without any analysis

Diddums. But, then again, it makes my blood boil to see so many posts of yours without any analysis.

 

[Pickman's model]

Diddums. But, then again, it makes my blood boil to see so many posts of yours without any analysis.

Yeh. Show me how you think it should be done. But before you do that, why not read the thread.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I really do recommend people take the time to read that article published in viewpoint that i linked to this morning - probably the best i've read on this. Comprehensive, thorough and realistic.

From that doc:

Thirdly independentism is an articulation of a desire for more democratic control and accountability, in relation to the wider crisis of legitimacy of the Spanish state and economic model since the onset of the housing crisis in 2008. Finally, it is a reaction against the arrogance and corruption, as well as the centralizing and authoritarian tendencies, of the PP, which has been ruling Spain since 2011.

This I agree with. For me it is the thing that I think most has motivated the process. It is accepted here as fact that Catalonia cannot advance "progressively" while chained to Spain. There have been literally hundreds of progressive laws that were passed by the Catalan parliament which were afterwards shot down by the PP government using the Constitutional tribunal. One after the other.

Podemos argues that instead of "seperating" from Spain to solve this, an alternative route should be followed so as to build up enough "left wing" strength in the spanish parliament to be able to achieve the two thirds vote that is necessary to "allow" a "legal" referendum. However, Podemos are being called for their intellectual dishonesty as this will never happen. The reality in Spain is that a mass of at least 8 million people vote unconditionally for the most corrupt party in europe, the PP. And even the savage looting of the pension fund by this mafia cannot wake them up. There is a cultrural crisis in Spain that Catalans don't want to share in anymore, as it is totally detrimental to their interests. I fully agree, Catalonia will be better off without Spain and it's knuckledraggers. The problem here now is that many economic migrants from the rest of Spain have not integrated and see themselves more as spanish than catalan. They will turn out today to vote for the extreme right, thinking that Arrimadas of Cuitadans will invest in hospitals and carry out social policies when she will not. She just wants to attack Catalonia and decorate the police with a medal for their violence on the 1st of october.

Arrimadas is the daughter of a fascist secret police. She has said in an interview that her heart is in Salamanca, so from that, it is obvoius that she is just here to cause trouble in "the Colony".

 

[Anudder Oik]

I really do recommend people take the time to read that article published in viewpoint that i linked to this morning - probably the best i've read on this. Comprehensive, thorough and realistic.

the current movement for Catalan sovereignty is the product of a perfect storm: advanced Catalan nation building, Spanish state nationalism, a deep crisis of legitimacy, constitutional blockade, and an uncompromising and dialogue-resistant central government, with the weakened EU incapable to to act as a stabilizing factor.

I think that the underlined part needs to be revised by the author. Maybe substitute "incapable" for "unwilling to act", "not condemning the violence", and "openly supporting the corrupt PP for economic reasons".

 

[DexterTCN]

Well...early reports suggest the EU is about to come under more pressure because it looks like the indies are winning.

 

[Pickman's model]

the current movement for Catalan sovereignty is the product of a perfect storm: advanced Catalan nation building, Spanish state nationalism, a deep crisis of legitimacy, constitutional blockade, and an uncompromising and dialogue-resistant central government, with the weakened EU incapable to to act as a stabilizing factor.

I think that the underlined part needs to be revised by the author. Maybe substitute "incapable" for "unwilling to act", "not condemning the violence", and "openly supporting the corrupt PP for economic reasons".

Or perhaps simply removing one to

 

[tim]

Well...early reports suggest the EU is about to come under more pressure because it looks like the indies are winning.

You make it sound like a Test Match.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Independentistas 70 seats. Jailers 57 seats. Republic wins. Silent majority failed to turn up. 18% abstention.
Rajoy's PP bastards absolutely trashed. Less votes than the anti-capitalist CUP, who, unfortunately are also down.
C's (new falange) over 1 million votes (up 300,000) and most voted party who will now whine endlessly because their fascist candidate cannot be president as this is about blocks, not parties.

So, who will be president? I think maybe someone from ERC as Podemos and CUP won't allow a JuntsXCat conservative candidate (Puigdemont's party.)

So, an Independentist president.

Visca la Republica!

Results: Resultados elecciones catalanas 2017

 

[Riklet]

Close win for the independentistas in terms of seats, but not in terms of percentage of vote, as El Pais is gleefully pointing out.

We have a shocking.... dun dun dunnnn 48 - 52 % split in terms of parties, with unionist parties of various political colours still holding the majority of votes in terms of the population. This is of course significant if we are to consider the future possibility of another referendum, possibly with more than 2 options on it.

The epic landslide victory of Ciudadanos still seems overhyped to me. Biggest party with 37 seats, 3 more than JuntsxCat. 1.1 million votes, compared to 900k odd for the JxCat and ERC, so clearly done well. But no chance of going anywhere politically with it, aside from showing their nice teeth, spouting a load of neoliberal toss in Catalan and hacking away on social media, the cunts.

More surprising for me is the poor state of the left, here. CUP and Podemos both down, ERC do well but third party in terms of share of votes. Independentismo has driven its wedge firmly between these various groups, too.

Leaves the future for Catalunya more open and divided than ever. Not sure how anyone is going to play this, frankly. But Jesus, for any supposed "radical" to be calling Puigdemont mr president whilst he's hiding in Brussels is a little bit sickening. Def no Nelson Mandela here!

 

[J Ed]

Congrats to the competing reactionaries

 

[JuanTwoThree]

74 seats for rightist nationalists. 37 of them Spanish nationalists, the other 37 Catalan. ¡Vivan las cadenas!

 

[Stanley Edwards]

Yep. Nothing has actually changed. Back to where things were just before the illegal October referendum. Everybody (majority) hates Rajoy still. Catalonia is split pretty much 50/50 on independence still. Just a re-run of the last election.

I am still believing Rajoy and the PP want rid of Catalonia, but they can't be seen to let it go without a fight.

Whilst some are declaring this a victory for independence, it wasn't actually a vote for independence, and if it had been, they would have lost.

There is still the possibility that Cuidadanos could call for forming a government.

 

[tim]

Independentistas 70 seats. Jailers 57 seats. Republic wins. Silent majority failed to turn up. 18% abstention.
Rajoy's PP bastards absolutely trashed. Less votes than the anti-capitalist CUP, who, unfortunately are also down.
C's (new falange) over 1 million votes (up 300,000) and most voted party who will now whine endlessly because their fascist candidate cannot be president as this is about blocks, not parties.

So, who will be president? I think maybe someone from ERC as Podemos and CUP won't allow a JuntsXCat conservative candidate (Puigdemont's party.)

So, an Independentist president.

Visca la Republica!

Results: Resultados elecciones catalanas 2017

The fact seccesionist parties received 48% of the vote and unionists 52%, rather undermines your claim that this is gives a popular mandate for independence, doesn't it?

Surely, the will of the majority of voters should be respected.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The fact seccesionist parties received 48% of the vote and unionists 52%, rather undermines your claim that this is gives a popular mandate for independence, doesn't it?

Surely, the will of the majority of voters should be respected.

I read somewhere it was actually 48% for secessionist parties, 43% for unionists parties & 9% for a non-aligned party.

 

[belboid]

I read somewhere it was actually 48% for secessionist parties, 43% for unionists parties & 9% for a non-aligned party.

Catalunya en Comú - essentially the Catalan Podemos - reject both nationalisms

 

[mather]

I am still believing Rajoy and the PP want rid of Catalonia, but they can't be seen to let it go without a fight.

Why would they? If Catalonia gets independence, it will be the end of Spain as other regions such as the Basques, Galicians etc... would want independence too. That and the fact that Spain is kept afloat with Catalan money, if the Catalans leave, Spain would face economic ruin and bankruptcy.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Catalunya en Comú - essentially the Catalan Podemos - reject both nationalisms

Yes, but they don't reject austerity and prefer to purge members who do.

Which is a tad odd seeing as they were supposedly born of the Indignados movement. Their fence sitting in all this has been questionable as it strengthened the right wing spanish nationalists, adding to their block in the anti-catalan elections.

On this same question, they also purged the leadership in Catalonia, Fachin. His criticism of Podemos' position is partially translated in this link Post 2539. Imo they are a phoney left who have shown that they will fold at the first true tests that come up. Pablo Iglesias rose to become leader after being "promoted" on chat shows on the sexta channel which is owned by a fascist.

 

[J Ed]

Yes, but they don't reject austerity and prefer to purge members who do.

Which is a tad odd seeing as they were supposedly born of the Indignados movement. Their fence sitting in all this has been questionable as it strengthened the right wing spanish nationalists, adding to their block in the anti-catalan elections.

On this same question, they also purged the leadership in Catalonia, Fachin. His criticism of Podemos' position is partially translated in this link Post 2539. Imo they are a phoney left who have shown that they will fold at the first true tests that come up. Pablo Iglesias rose to become leader after being "promoted" on chat shows on the sexta channel which is owned by a fascist.

Proper socialists of course rally to the banner of corrupt centre-right Catalan Nationalists.

There are things that you can critique Podemos for, lots of them, and one is that they have moved to the right but the fact that they haven't thrown themselves behind right-wing Catalan Nationalism isn't one of them. Their opposition to both the españolistas and your lot is principled and logical, even if it has not worked well electorally.

What do you want Podemos to do exactly? Declare themselves in favour of a UDI without a properly conducted democratic election?