Spammed by the Synergy Project
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hiraethified
Steve once again spectacularly fails to understand that urban75 isn't some homogeneous bloc.
By continuing to trot out his woefully misguided stereotype of the urban75 community being some sort of 'anti-Synergy' collective he is - once again - making himself look like a complete arse.
His arrogant antics here have alienated huge chunks of what would be a sympathetic audience and he only has himself to blame for that.
Synergy scatters the word 'community' all around their appallingly designed website, yet it appears our Steve is rather selective as to who gets to be included in that phrase....
By continuing to trot out his woefully misguided stereotype of the urban75 community being some sort of 'anti-Synergy' collective he is - once again - making himself look like a complete arse.
His arrogant antics here have alienated huge chunks of what would be a sympathetic audience and he only has himself to blame for that.
Synergy scatters the word 'community' all around their appallingly designed website, yet it appears our Steve is rather selective as to who gets to be included in that phrase....
I never got a straight answer about what things people can go to at The Brixton Synergy Centre, where it is and when to go. 
I don't really care about all the other stuff. I just want to know what use this mythical "Synergy Centre" will be to me and others in Brixton?
What the fuck is "synergy" anyway - sounds alot less use than a nice cup of tea.
I don't really care about all the other stuff. I just want to know what use this mythical "Synergy Centre" will be to me and others in Brixton?
What the fuck is "synergy" anyway - sounds alot less use than a nice cup of tea.
I do not think that Steve has quite got the hang of this new fangled email, internet, websites and BB communities malarky yet and how to use them to enhance positive communication and publicity!!
Welcome to the mid 90´s chap, catch up you are supposed to be leading a radical cutting edge project and that!!
Welcome to the mid 90´s chap, catch up you are supposed to be leading a radical cutting edge project and that!!
If it's to be 'ideologically driven' to be interested in accountability, transparency and democracy in a community project in receipt of £41,000 of public funds then I hold my hands up.Loki quoting Steve said:
But then I've met dozens - hundreds - of Tories, Liberals, Social Democrats, Greens, Blairites, Communists and Trots who'd feel exactly as I do.
Here are the 'ideologically driven' questions:-
Who's got control of the money?
On what basis can it be spent?
What sort of scrutiny are those who control the money under?
How can they be got rid of?
Even lang rabbie - hardly a raging idiologue (unless you count John Stewart Mill, Jean Jacque Rousseau and naughty old Bertrand Russell) - asked similar questions earlier in the thread.
No answer was available so he paid his fiver, checked Companies House and found there wasn't even a Members list for the Synergy companies.
So two private limited companies consisting of three people have got their hands on a load of public money. Very similar to what happened at Dogstar. They grabbed £74,000 of Brixton Challenge money and we all know what happened next.
That is interesting.
past caring
The Cathars were right
But hardly surprising.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Steves comments from the "psyforum" (thanks posters for putting up that info) are contradictory.Synergy divide their email list into 2 parts --those given over its website and those collected at events.Steve says at one point that Synergy control the list(collected at events)but use it to send info about sister organisations and at another that Synergy "traded" the list with Continental Drifts--which are two different things.
Handing over a list of addresses to a third party is different from keeping it confidential but agreeing to run say an add in ones own email bulletin about another organisations events.I would not call the second spamming but the first is.
Handing over a list of addresses to a third party is different from keeping it confidential but agreeing to run say an add in ones own email bulletin about another organisations events.I would not call the second spamming but the first is.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This is the link that the Ed put up on page 5 on the data protection act:
http://www.extravision.com/dataprotection.cfm
It seems Steve is making a difference between how email addresses are collected.Consent is the issue here.If ur at a party your more likely to hand over your email address without thinking to hard about.I wonder if people were told in writing what they were consenting to?It doesnt seem like that.
I dont understand why Steve is making a difference based on how email addresses are collected.It could be that on the website you under the DPA really have to have strict policies you can demonstrate if challenged.
Handing over your email address at a club/event means hard for you to prove-if u complain-the type of consent you gave.On the website its up their on the site.Though when I join an organisation --theirs normally a box u can tick to say if you agree to your details being passed on.
I suppose the thing is never hand over your email address at a event-even if its to an "alternative" organisation.
http://www.extravision.com/dataprotection.cfm
It seems Steve is making a difference between how email addresses are collected.Consent is the issue here.If ur at a party your more likely to hand over your email address without thinking to hard about.I wonder if people were told in writing what they were consenting to?It doesnt seem like that.
I dont understand why Steve is making a difference based on how email addresses are collected.It could be that on the website you under the DPA really have to have strict policies you can demonstrate if challenged.
Handing over your email address at a club/event means hard for you to prove-if u complain-the type of consent you gave.On the website its up their on the site.Though when I join an organisation --theirs normally a box u can tick to say if you agree to your details being passed on.
I suppose the thing is never hand over your email address at a event-even if its to an "alternative" organisation.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I also was interested that the Council read this thread.I think the Brixton section is read by some at the Council-though they dont like to admit it.
The one thing about U75 is that people can say what they want here.Its not like going to Council meetings.If you want to see a lack of debate try them.
Steve was complaining about people who are "ideologically driven".I did a few pages back ask a few "ideological" questions-in a non aggressive manner-which I thought were serious ones.
I hope Steves association with the Council does not mean he gets the same mindset.The Council hate it if you start asking questions.This kind of mindset is also that of the "we" are trying to get on with things and your being negative or "political".
The one thing about U75 is that people can say what they want here.Its not like going to Council meetings.If you want to see a lack of debate try them.
Steve was complaining about people who are "ideologically driven".I did a few pages back ask a few "ideological" questions-in a non aggressive manner-which I thought were serious ones.
I hope Steves association with the Council does not mean he gets the same mindset.The Council hate it if you start asking questions.This kind of mindset is also that of the "we" are trying to get on with things and your being negative or "political".
Apparently the 41k is coming from the "Raising Our Sights" fund which is administering SRB money in Lambeth. This is their website http://www.lambethebp.org.uk/ros/ros.cfm?CFID=190162&CFTOKEN=1568839 and has a lot of details about the projects they are funding. Strangely, I couldn't find any mention of the Synergy Project or Synergy Centre.Anna Key said:
Raising Our Sights is run by Lambeth Education Business Partnership (EBP) who have lots of information about projects here (although some of them are only available in downloadable spreadsheet format): http://www.lambethebp.org.uk/lebp/lebp.cfm?CFID=190193&CFTOKEN=62590967
I'm still looking for some official infomation about the Synergy Project.
Dubversion said:
Perhaps you can let us know the outcome of that Dub. I've always thought well of CD and think they've done loads of good work, I still think well of them generally.
But looks as if they made a bad error of judgement on this one ...
Continental Drifts had my email address from a good while ago ...
editor said:
surely by spamming us, they're trying to encourage Urban consumerism?
steve indigenou
New Member
Face it Mike,
deep down you enjoy receiving the emails, as it gives you something to moan and gripe about.
Otherwise you would have unsubcribed long ago.
We don't even know your email address, so we can't remove you ourselves. But maybe you just can't bring yourself to spend a precious 10 seconds unsubscribing.
Incidentally, and you'll probably get a few hours of self-righteous anger out of this, I keep getting unsolicited mails from the Cannabis festival. But starting a thread called "Spammed by the Cannabis Festival" would be a little childish, don't you think ?
I gather you had a nice chat with Mel from Continental Drifts. I spoke to Chris, who was as dimissive of your moaning as we were.
Let's see how many more posts we can generate, on this issue of such overwhelming importance.
Steve
ps anyone know who founded Ecotrip ?
deep down you enjoy receiving the emails, as it gives you something to moan and gripe about.
Otherwise you would have unsubcribed long ago.
We don't even know your email address, so we can't remove you ourselves. But maybe you just can't bring yourself to spend a precious 10 seconds unsubscribing.
Incidentally, and you'll probably get a few hours of self-righteous anger out of this, I keep getting unsolicited mails from the Cannabis festival. But starting a thread called "Spammed by the Cannabis Festival" would be a little childish, don't you think ?
I gather you had a nice chat with Mel from Continental Drifts. I spoke to Chris, who was as dimissive of your moaning as we were.
Let's see how many more posts we can generate, on this issue of such overwhelming importance.
Steve
ps anyone know who founded Ecotrip ?
Steve - you might have a point if you admitted that you had made a mistake, that you had possibly broken the law over the data protection act and that you apologised for sending unsolicited emails, which are a bane of many people's lives. I don't really believe that you deliberately set out to spam anyone or that you are trying to defend your right to spam people. However you are not doing yourself any favours in the way you are expressing yourself.
I'm also suggesting that in setting up shop in the Jan Rebane centre you are trying to "recreate" Ecotrip, except what I most valued back then was the weekly cafe, where people from around Brixton could come and meet up, get food for £1 or so and were free to smoke cannabis (rather than get boozed up) and talk politics.
Are you going to put on anything like this, or is it all going to be £15 parties for rich kids and people in full-time work - probably a lot of them not even from the local area?
I also remember the Jan Rebane Centre becoming home to a range of people and groups, including a local (afro-carribbean) "Mount Zion Church" amongst other people. How much involvement from the local community do *you* have?
I was just wondering how long it would take you to jump in and start slagging off a "Brixton's favourite politician"-related project. You never miss a single opportunity to turn any single criticism of what you are doing into a chance to slag off someone else who is entirely unrelated to the subject at hand and with whom you have a personal problem.
OK I think it is only fair that I admit that when I said Synergy was "trying to copy Ecotrip" I was wrong to imply that you didn't have a massive hand in Ecotrip yourself. However, I would like to point out that over the period of time in which it ws running (is it still in existance now?) a hell of a lot of people put in a hell of a lot of work and sweat, and I would argue that the credit for anything it achieved should go equally to everyone - important or anonymous - who helped out in any way.
I'm also suggesting that in setting up shop in the Jan Rebane centre you are trying to "recreate" Ecotrip, except what I most valued back then was the weekly cafe, where people from around Brixton could come and meet up, get food for £1 or so and were free to smoke cannabis (rather than get boozed up) and talk politics.
Are you going to put on anything like this, or is it all going to be £15 parties for rich kids and people in full-time work - probably a lot of them not even from the local area?
I also remember the Jan Rebane Centre becoming home to a range of people and groups, including a local (afro-carribbean) "Mount Zion Church" amongst other people. How much involvement from the local community do *you* have?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
oh fuck me, that's the last of my sympathy for synergy gone (and if you look at this thread, I had quite a bit of openmindedness) .
LET'S SPELL THIS OUT; Spamming is illegal, the work of Satan, a pain in the arse, unprofessional, extremely irritating, and rude as fuck.. I spend at least one hour a day clearing my personal and work inboxes of unsolicited crap, and it drives me up the wall. if you'd spammed ME-I'd have taken legal action.
oh, btw...as you said before;
LET'S SPELL THIS OUT; Spamming is illegal, the work of Satan, a pain in the arse, unprofessional, extremely irritating, and rude as fuck.. I spend at least one hour a day clearing my personal and work inboxes of unsolicited crap, and it drives me up the wall. if you'd spammed ME-I'd have taken legal action.
oh, btw...as you said before;
err, what's changed?
editor
hiraethified
It seems you're having trouble understanding these simple facts:steve indigenou said:
Spamming is bad.
Spammers are the scum of the earth
Spamming is illegal
'Swapping' spam lists is illegal
Spamming only generates bad publicity
Spammers piss people off
Spammers deserve all the contempt they get
If you weren't such a pig ignorant, self-obsessed, pseudo-hippy-funded-by-the-taxpayer you'd understand that it is not up to me to unsubscribe from spam lists that I have never joined.
Now kindly remove all references to me from your (illegally obtained) spam list. NOW. And while you're at it, you may want to take a peek at your web host's AUP. They're not too keen on spamming either.
Oh, and don't think that you're getting any special treatment here.
I treat all spamming scum with the same contempt, whether they're flogging V1AGrA, penis enlargements or dressing up their illegal activities in laughable, middle-class, cod-spirituality, mumbo-jumbo.
steve indigenou said:
hmmm.. now THAT shouldn't be too hard to check.
anyway, regardless of what chris may or may not have said, and with all due respect to him as someone who's actually serving some purpose unlike yourself, chris's alleged indifference to the spam issue doesn't change anything does it? it's still a cuntish thing to do, and you're still persisting in making an absolute dick of yourself on this thread.
and it appears that the posts regarding your fucking spam have been removed from the synergy forum.
so free speech is alive and well at Synergy too.
you really are a fool, aren't you steve?
so free speech is alive and well at Synergy too.
you really are a fool, aren't you steve?
editor
hiraethified
If proof were needed of the stupidity of Steve's ego-driven antics here, maybe this will make him see sense:
Type in 'synergy project brixton' into google and the two out of the first three results bear the heading, "Spammed by the Synergy Project"
Type in 'thesynergyproject brixton' and the spam thread comes right at the top. And second in the list too.
Nice work, Steve. I bet your partners and co-workers must be delighted with such an association.
If only your bloated ego had let you say, "sorry" months ago.....
Type in 'synergy project brixton' into google and the two out of the first three results bear the heading, "Spammed by the Synergy Project"
Type in 'thesynergyproject brixton' and the spam thread comes right at the top. And second in the list too.
Nice work, Steve. I bet your partners and co-workers must be delighted with such an association.
If only your bloated ego had let you say, "sorry" months ago.....
steve indigenou
New Member
Mike,
I have no idea what your email address is. So I can't remove it from the list. Only you can do this. I know this will piss you off and you will refuse to do so. So, we'll just go round and round in circles.
TeeJay, thanks for the acknowledgement about Ecotrip, what you say is true, many people put alot of work into it and as such, it's legacy (or that of other projects in Brixton) is perhaps not owned exclusively by anyone.
But though we're using the same building, we're not seeking to re-create Ecotrip - I'm hoping that we can move on a little in terms of how we're organised for example to insure we last more than 15 months. We're not going to be charing £15 for events as the venue costs won't be nearly as high, which is one of the main reasons (in addition to wanting to pay our artists) we charge £15 on the door for the larger Synergy parties as the venue costs are really very high @ SEOne. Many other nights, with less than a quarter of the production, charge more.
But we've been through all this before. We want to earn a living rather than sign on, be legit rather than squat, be taken seriously (at least in certain quarters) and not dimissed. As property in London is amongst the most expensive in the world, this means we have to generate an income. One way to do this is to charge on the door. The other is to fund-raise. It comes with the territory. In Mike's eyes it makes us capitalists, in mine it makes us pragmatists.
Yes, the cafe will be there (run by the same people who ran it before), plus a varied selection of workshops and entertainments.
The point about the Cannabis Festival deserves discussion. It's a project close to your hearts, as Synergy is to mine. Are you saying that it's OK for the Cannabis Festival to send out promotional emails but not for Synergy ? If so why ?
If not, then you should recognise that lots of projects use email to promote themselves, believing that the merit of their project justifies the small inconvenience. I am sure this is how the Cannabis Festival feel, and the effort to delete the emails is hardly worth getting enraged about.
Incindentally, whether or not you think I'm a dick, a cunt or whatever is not going to change my mind. A reasoned argument addressing the issues might.
Or perhaps a recognition that there are more important things in life to get enraged about. This one will run and run, assuming we have nothing better to do with our time.
Steve
I have no idea what your email address is. So I can't remove it from the list. Only you can do this. I know this will piss you off and you will refuse to do so. So, we'll just go round and round in circles.
TeeJay, thanks for the acknowledgement about Ecotrip, what you say is true, many people put alot of work into it and as such, it's legacy (or that of other projects in Brixton) is perhaps not owned exclusively by anyone.
But though we're using the same building, we're not seeking to re-create Ecotrip - I'm hoping that we can move on a little in terms of how we're organised for example to insure we last more than 15 months. We're not going to be charing £15 for events as the venue costs won't be nearly as high, which is one of the main reasons (in addition to wanting to pay our artists) we charge £15 on the door for the larger Synergy parties as the venue costs are really very high @ SEOne. Many other nights, with less than a quarter of the production, charge more.
But we've been through all this before. We want to earn a living rather than sign on, be legit rather than squat, be taken seriously (at least in certain quarters) and not dimissed. As property in London is amongst the most expensive in the world, this means we have to generate an income. One way to do this is to charge on the door. The other is to fund-raise. It comes with the territory. In Mike's eyes it makes us capitalists, in mine it makes us pragmatists.
Yes, the cafe will be there (run by the same people who ran it before), plus a varied selection of workshops and entertainments.
The point about the Cannabis Festival deserves discussion. It's a project close to your hearts, as Synergy is to mine. Are you saying that it's OK for the Cannabis Festival to send out promotional emails but not for Synergy ? If so why ?
If not, then you should recognise that lots of projects use email to promote themselves, believing that the merit of their project justifies the small inconvenience. I am sure this is how the Cannabis Festival feel, and the effort to delete the emails is hardly worth getting enraged about.
Incindentally, whether or not you think I'm a dick, a cunt or whatever is not going to change my mind. A reasoned argument addressing the issues might.
Or perhaps a recognition that there are more important things in life to get enraged about. This one will run and run, assuming we have nothing better to do with our time.
Steve
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
steve indigenou said:
I'd guess its the one with Mike or urban75 in it. Just a guess, like.
You sound like a right tosser Steve, you really do.
[edit to add]
Wouldn't it just be easier if you apologised and removed Mike's email from your list? It might save all this unpleasantness.
editor
hiraethified
Don't play games with me.steve indigenou said:
The address you've been relentlessly spamming is blindingly obvious. It's the one that contains my name, "mike" and the words, "urban75" and ".com".
I'm sure even you could work that one out for yourself.
Now take me off your illegally-obtained spam list now. Spam me again and I will take action.
And then perhaps you might care to take a look back through this thread and ponder over the wisdom of presenting yourself as a pig-headed, ego-driven, unrepentant spammer.
Doesn't it bother you in the slightest that you've managed to completely piss off a potentially large group of sympathetic, supportive people because of your 'me-me-me' attitude and your refusal to acknowledge that you were wrong to spam?
I'd thought this thread had died, but since it's resurrected:
I wasn't for a moment suggesting that NGO's would be funding you "parties"; the Charity Commission would certainly have something to say if theyt were (for those which are registered). Rather that, if you are allowing them to broadcast their messages, or whatever, you are supporting them.
Most supermarkets support a chosen charity each year and, of course, benefit by the association. Nonetheless, I don't think even they would stretch it to eg "Sainsbury's, supported bv NSPCC". Likewise, Tesco distribute leaflets promoting the 5-portions of fruit or veg a day message, carrying the Cancer Research UK logo. Again, we'd balk at "Tesco, supported by Cancer Research UK".
My point was that organisations like Oxfam have built a considerable reputation ("Brand" in your terms) on the back of supporters donations. Your are seeking to purloin some of that reputation which I'm sure Oxfam supporters never intended for you.
All that said, I note you've now removed the "supported by" and mention of Oxfam from your website. Now, why might that be?
steve indigenou said:
I wasn't for a moment suggesting that NGO's would be funding you "parties"; the Charity Commission would certainly have something to say if theyt were (for those which are registered). Rather that, if you are allowing them to broadcast their messages, or whatever, you are supporting them.
Most supermarkets support a chosen charity each year and, of course, benefit by the association. Nonetheless, I don't think even they would stretch it to eg "Sainsbury's, supported bv NSPCC". Likewise, Tesco distribute leaflets promoting the 5-portions of fruit or veg a day message, carrying the Cancer Research UK logo. Again, we'd balk at "Tesco, supported by Cancer Research UK".
My point was that organisations like Oxfam have built a considerable reputation ("Brand" in your terms) on the back of supporters donations. Your are seeking to purloin some of that reputation which I'm sure Oxfam supporters never intended for you.
All that said, I note you've now removed the "supported by" and mention of Oxfam from your website. Now, why might that be?
steve indigenou
New Member
So, no answers about the Cannabis Festival's use of email then. What a big surprise.
So I'l ask again. Why is their use of email to promote their event any different from ours ?
One of the reasons I'm so dismissive of your criticisms is that as soon as the object of your criticisms shines the same critical light back at projects close to your own hearts, you generally evade the issue and resort to abuse.
I'll look for the email address and remove it.
In the meantime, you should be aware that, true to form, I don't give a damn about how you think about me, I thought that would have become clear by now Mike. Your agressiveness, your simplistic dimissals, the ignorance that has informed much of the vitroil etc etc has reassured me that your criticisms are not worth worrying about.
You also really don't like the fact that Synergy is sucessful as you see it as a threat to the legacy of Cooltan, Ecotrip etc which you feel had some authenticity to them which Synergy does not and that Synergy is a betrayal, a sell out, just because we have a pragmatic attitude torwards money and authority.
The fact that it's because having seen all the work I put into Ecotrip go to waste that I decided to try and different approach seems to be lost on you. You don't listen to the explanations because it's more fun, and certainly easiesr, to criticise than be constructive.
The points about our relationship with the NGOs is a good example. We invite the NGOs to come along and so a stall or a display. They agree. We put their logo on our flyer. We provided them with an audience of young people who they often find hard to reach. They benefit, we benefit. They see that it's good for them, so they keep coming back, as do Oxfam, who are one of the most active and imaginative NGOs we work with.
Only people with very cynical attitudes could find a problem with that, or ones with their minds already made up who twist the facts to shore up their own cracked reality.
So No Mike, I don't care if you think we've done ourselves loads of damage. No one really cares what is said on Urban 75 except the people who post themselves. The only exception to this was the Paddick affair, when the site had a big impact outside its own living room.
Many of the people I used to work with and new colleagues within Synergy are starting to adopt the same approach we advocate : of incorporating as a company limited by guarantee, developing a mission statement and a project outline, putting in place an effective and accountable decision making structure and using this foundation to engage with authority.
Why ? Because they see that it works.
Remember how this all began, with the false claims about 'Cooltan Revisited'. That was why and that remains why you hate us so.
Do I care ?
No.
Steve
So I'l ask again. Why is their use of email to promote their event any different from ours ?
One of the reasons I'm so dismissive of your criticisms is that as soon as the object of your criticisms shines the same critical light back at projects close to your own hearts, you generally evade the issue and resort to abuse.
I'll look for the email address and remove it.
In the meantime, you should be aware that, true to form, I don't give a damn about how you think about me, I thought that would have become clear by now Mike. Your agressiveness, your simplistic dimissals, the ignorance that has informed much of the vitroil etc etc has reassured me that your criticisms are not worth worrying about.
You also really don't like the fact that Synergy is sucessful as you see it as a threat to the legacy of Cooltan, Ecotrip etc which you feel had some authenticity to them which Synergy does not and that Synergy is a betrayal, a sell out, just because we have a pragmatic attitude torwards money and authority.
The fact that it's because having seen all the work I put into Ecotrip go to waste that I decided to try and different approach seems to be lost on you. You don't listen to the explanations because it's more fun, and certainly easiesr, to criticise than be constructive.
The points about our relationship with the NGOs is a good example. We invite the NGOs to come along and so a stall or a display. They agree. We put their logo on our flyer. We provided them with an audience of young people who they often find hard to reach. They benefit, we benefit. They see that it's good for them, so they keep coming back, as do Oxfam, who are one of the most active and imaginative NGOs we work with.
Only people with very cynical attitudes could find a problem with that, or ones with their minds already made up who twist the facts to shore up their own cracked reality.
So No Mike, I don't care if you think we've done ourselves loads of damage. No one really cares what is said on Urban 75 except the people who post themselves. The only exception to this was the Paddick affair, when the site had a big impact outside its own living room.
Many of the people I used to work with and new colleagues within Synergy are starting to adopt the same approach we advocate : of incorporating as a company limited by guarantee, developing a mission statement and a project outline, putting in place an effective and accountable decision making structure and using this foundation to engage with authority.
Why ? Because they see that it works.
Remember how this all began, with the false claims about 'Cooltan Revisited'. That was why and that remains why you hate us so.
Do I care ?
No.
Steve
steve indigenou said:
Fine. But nothing there justifies the claim "supported by Oxfam" in the overblown rhetoric of your website.
steve indigenou said:
You have a real knack for endearing yourself and your organisation. You should be minded that Urban75 is not some homogenous monolith, as has been pointed out before, but on the Brixton Forum at least, a very heterogenous mix of local people, many active in local networks and politics, and all of whom will now be keeping a critical eye on your enterprise and it's use of public money.
