Should Tulse Hill in south London - named after a 17th century slave trader - change its name?
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hiraethified
As I recall from my research, that made him one of the major investors in the business at the time. I don't think it's useful comparing him with modern millionaires as there wasn't anywhere near as many of those about in the 17th Century. He was absolutely a very powerful man and as far as I can see, did very nicely for himself out of his slave trade connections.
Orang Utan
They cannot crucify you if your hand is in a fist
It’s South Brixton
Agree!! Key words being 'multi million pound virtue signalling rebrand'. Plus - wiping the name makes it easier to forget the deed. Wiping and 'rebranding' is NOT a solution. Better education helps.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
some of us can multi-task
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i have submitted my tender for the vsrp which comes in at £1.22m, def not multi million
Well done - me too actually - started writing more but - other things to do haha. Obvs slave trade was totally out of orde/horrendous and more but - so are Lambeth Council and that's when I had to turn away. Spent too many years already on that argument xxx
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
most people agree that the slave trade was worse than lambeth council
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hiraethified
Well that's a first: putting Lambeth Council on an equal footing with the slave trade.
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hiraethified
Forget what deed? Until recently, most people had no idea at all where the name Tulse Hill came from. But now that people know, locals can decide for themselves if they want to live in an area with a name that honours a slave trader.
Bargain!!
The 'deed' is the history. Apologies - wrong word. However - that's why - education is (part of) the answer
Apologies again. You wanna argue or something? Injustice is injustice. Aren't we, the people best if we work together?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if you don't want to argue you're in the wrong place
Unless the name of the place has changed
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
even if the name of the place has changed
editor
hiraethified
Indeed. So if those living in the area decide for themselves that they don't want to live somewhere that celebrates a man involved in a truly brutal and despicable slave trade, that's entirely their choice - whether you like it or not,.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Good job the origin of the name pre-dates that then
Take your pick.
Etymology of London - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
it's a word that differentiates it from "Norwood" say. Names are just signs. The name stuck.
andysays
Love and solidarity
names are rarely "just signs" and even more rarely when we're talking place names derived from powerful or otherwise 'important' historical people.
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I live here. Can I have a say?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Work together, gung ho, associated with the us marine corps but derives of course from the Chinese Communist Party
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HaveMyPassword123
I’m not sure the “standards of the day“ should be a consideration
In the 1640s and 50s while Henry Tulse was growing up, the Barbary Pirates made frequent raids on the European coasts, and large numbers of people from e.g. Cornwall and Ireland were captured and sold into slavery in North Africa. So by the standards of the day it was pretty normal.
This has nothing to do with whether the people of Tulse Hill want to change its name now because they have decided that they don’t like Henry Tulse. Opposing it by saying that Henry was a pretty decent fellow back in the day isnt credible.
Perhaps if Henry Tulse had done a whole lot of awesome stuff like Newton or something (not just philanthropy) and there were a bunch of Tulse Hill residents who thought on balance the name ought to be retained, then maybe there would be a debate to be had. But here it just seems he obtained some dosh, aquired some land and got made Lord Mayor for a year and no one really remembers anything else he did.
In the 1640s and 50s while Henry Tulse was growing up, the Barbary Pirates made frequent raids on the European coasts, and large numbers of people from e.g. Cornwall and Ireland were captured and sold into slavery in North Africa. So by the standards of the day it was pretty normal.
This has nothing to do with whether the people of Tulse Hill want to change its name now because they have decided that they don’t like Henry Tulse. Opposing it by saying that Henry was a pretty decent fellow back in the day isnt credible.
Perhaps if Henry Tulse had done a whole lot of awesome stuff like Newton or something (not just philanthropy) and there were a bunch of Tulse Hill residents who thought on balance the name ought to be retained, then maybe there would be a debate to be had. But here it just seems he obtained some dosh, aquired some land and got made Lord Mayor for a year and no one really remembers anything else he did.
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platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Another thing with these names and statues. There’s the “I’m gonna trade some slaves and make me a fortune” type guys, and then there’s the “his great uncle died and he was bequeathed an estate which included some slaves and which he had no direct involvement with” people, which if you’re judging by today’s standard might be regarded as much the same, but if you’re going to invoke the standards of the day are quite different. I haven’t checked the details but it seems Tulse was of the former type?
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hiraethified
This is the company he supported and financially backed. They didn't just dabble in on-trend slavery. They were the biggest cunts on the planet.
Who were the Royal African Company?
Wikipedia details the company and their ‘brutal’ activities in the slave trade, which included branding slaves with the company’s initials:
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hiraethified
You're really trotting out the 'it was just as bad in Cornwall' argument?
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
No I’m not, am I? I am talking about attitudes to slavery in Restoration England.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Get rid of that fucker, too, while we're at it. He has a statue in Trafalgar Square.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
So Tulse was Director of this company, so would presumably have been fully complicit in its slave acquisition business. That’s very different from someone who simply invested in the company (trading company mainly for the gold trade, run by the King’s brother, seems legit).
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
If you believe it was run by the king's brother I wouldn't be surprised if you thought it was entirely legit
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HaveMyPassword123
Was James, Duke of York not the King’s brother? If not, how did he get the throne when Charles died?
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