Several people shot dead in Plymouth 12 August 2021

[ElizabethofYork]

This isnt really terrorism. Terrorism has some sort of ideology.
Not getting laid and hating women is not an ideology

The entitlement and the misogyny of these groups is part of their ideology.

 

[agricola]

This is all true. But if society is producing more and more men - I was about to write "people", but let's face it, it's men - like this, then society needs to take a look at itself too.

TBF this is probably from the same sort of place - that of failing to / being unable to get "success" as defined in this society - that results in so many male suicides. In this case though there is the involvement of so many ghouls (who I am sure we are all familiar with) who deliberately seek to monetize content reinforcing these views.

 

[two sheds]

Pump action and magazine fed Shotguns can be owned for the sport of "practical shotgun"
Some of them are the size of bren guns! Ridiculous things with a range of 100m.

This isnt really terrorism. Terrorism has some sort of ideology.
Not getting laid and hating women is not an ideology

Being a trump supporter is a political/ideological position.

 

[BigMoaner]

The entitlement and the misogyny of these groups is part of their ideology.

most of them are firmly in the alt-right/redpill?MGTOW cesspits too. their "theories" about men and women of course stretch out across society, because of, well, it's full of men and women.

definite ideology in my view.

 

[BigMoaner]

TBF this is probably from the same sort of place - that of failing to / being unable to get "success" as defined in this society - that results in so many male suicides. In this case though there is the involvement of so many ghouls (who I am sure we are all familiar with) who deliberately seek to monetize content reinforcing these views.

interesting that the history of the incel movement - when it first started was a place for men and women who felt extreme lonliness and sexual frustration could gather and bond. which on the face of it is actually nice. must have been quite healing etc.

but then yeh, que the bad actors. doesn't take long for things to go wrong.

 

[BigMoaner]

wish their could be a study - "levels of extremism before the internet vs levels of extremism now". has it grown? do these computers grow extremism?

of course you would have to control for so many different variables, but it's an interesting thought experiment, for me anyway.

 

[Wilf]

This isnt really terrorism. Terrorism has some sort of ideology.
Not getting laid and hating women is not an ideology

That's not the case at all. Generically, these scumbags have a background of misogyny, which is itself ideological. But increasingly they are part of the alt-right swamp (see the video posted above).

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Taliban innit

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

And is nothing but terrorism. which let's not kid ourselves is nothing but manchilds wanting what they expected to happen to happen and throwing a toddlers fit when it doesnt.

 

[sojourner]

This is all true. But if society is producing more and more men - I was about to write "people", but let's face it, it's men - like this, then society needs to take a look at itself too.

If you read Laura Bates' book, she talks about how young men are groomed through online gaming, how she started hearing the exact same phrases as the ones used in the MWGTOW forums being repeated by boys as young as 12 in the classrooms that she visited to give talks.

 

[The39thStep]

 

[The39thStep]

The logic of branding incil type violent acts as terrorism is that you should really have a preventative strategy to try and reduce such acts which fits into a counter terrorist strategy.

 

[brogdale]

Six minutes from the second that the first 999 call is received at the control room to a unit getting on scene is very fast - remember that is for someone to take the details, type it on to an incident, send it to the despatchers, get a unit going and for the unit to get there on blue lights.

It is still enough time for him to kill and wound many people - just as it was for the three individuals to kill and wound many people at the first London Bridge attack - but you aren't ever going to get a faster response unless a cop is actually there or near enough so that they can hear it.

Yep, I bow to folks' greater knowledge on the validity of what the Chief said; it's just that it looked a bit of an insensitive, cuntishly managerial thing to say when families are grieving in the raw immediacy of the trauma and knowing that it was all over before the cops got there anyway.

Might just be me, but it smelt like he was fronting with a 'nothing more we could have done' position as a first response. Might be true, but not really the time, surely?

 

[PursuedByBears]

The logic of branding incil type violent acts as terrorism is that you should really have a preventative strategy to try and reduce such acts which fits into a counter terrorist strategy.

Absolutely; but I think that opens a whole can of worms around toxic masculinity and how we socialise children that the establishment doesn't want to touch with a ten-foot pole.

 

[Idris2002]

A lot of incel tropes draw on evolutionary psychology and sociobiology, as putatively intellectual supports for their misogyny. That's ideology there too.

 

[glitch hiker]

If you read Laura Bates' book, she talks about how young men are groomed through online gaming, how she started hearing the exact same phrases as the ones used in the MWGTOW forums being repeated by boys as young as 12 in the classrooms that she visited to give talks.

I can well believe it. Online gaming spaces are so toxic. You really have to see it (ugh) to believe it, and it's been like that for way too long.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Pump action and magazine fed Shotguns can be owned for the sport of "practical shotgun"
Some of them are the size of bren guns! Ridiculous things with a range of 100m.

The range of a shotgun is pretty much down to the type and load of the cartridge in it, rather than the gun itself.

 

[Spymaster]

No idea how this isn't classified as a terror attack given it's a violent act due to a warped ideology. Almost like there's a separate agenda at work eh

Incels aren't religiously or political motivated. They're just cunts.

 

[8ball]

most of them are firmly in the alt-right/redpill?MGTOW cesspits too. their "theories" about men and women of course stretch out across society, because of, well, it's full of men and women.

definite ideology in my view.

In terms of being 'terrorism', there are no aims or demands, just a lashing out.
They're informed by ideology, but I wouldn't say they have one.

 

[8ball]

also doesn't help that as a society we are so romance/sex/relationship obsessed. more lies we have been fed. end result is people feeling cut off and isolated and weird if they are not fitting into some sort of "normative" framework.

That seemed very true of this person and his gripes about his teenage years not living up to some kind of movie narrative.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The logic of branding incil type violent acts as terrorism is that you should really have a preventative strategy to try and reduce such acts which fits into a counter terrorist strategy.

And that's why it's 'not terrorism'. Because to meaningfully act to prevent this kind of shit would mean attacking the same individualism and social darwinism that underpins the right-neoliberal political orthodoxy.

 

[brogdale]

And that's why it's 'not terrorism'. Because to meaningfully act to prevent this kind of shit would mean attacking the same individualism and social darwinism that underpins the right-neoliberal political orthodoxy.

Crux.

 

[two sheds]

And has the useful sideline of converting 'how do we deal with stuff like this' conversation into 'was he really a terrorist though'

 

[Steel Icarus]

Incels aren't religiously or political motivated. They're just cunts.

Nah, there's an ethos and shared ideology, otherwise it wouldn't be a movement would it?

 

[Steel Icarus]

And saying they're just cunts seeks to disallow any examination of why they are/do what they are/do.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

And that's why it's 'not terrorism'. Because to meaningfully act to prevent this kind of shit would mean attacking the same individualism and social darwinism that underpins the right-neoliberal political orthodoxy.

How could the state ‘meaningfully act’ to prevent this type of event? What would be the practical and specific measures? How would they work? Who would carry out and enforce a strategy to undermine individualism and social darwinism?

I genuinely do not see how this type of approach could even be considered under the current system. I also think the things you are talking about are manifest and produced in society at every level and takes on million of forms.

 

[two sheds]

Attack their finances for a start. Close down the Facebook etc. accounts that pull 'ordinary' people in. That will drive it underground somewhat but at least contains it. Root out the sympathizers (fascists) in the police and armed forces. Won't happen though.

I'd say.

 

[skyscraper101]

BBC just reported he killed his own Mum.

Plymouth shooting: Maxine Davison, killer's mother, was first victim Plymouth shooting: Maxine Davison, killer's mother, was first victim

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

How could the state ‘meaningfully act’ to prevent this type of event? What would be the practical and specific measures? How would they work? Who would carry out and enforce a strategy to undermine individualism and social darwinism?

I genuinely do not see how this type of approach could even be considered under the current system. I also think the things you are talking about are manifest and produced in society at every level and takes on million of forms.

Try thinking outside of the box here. The state as nanny keeper fails. We don’t need the state to fix this. We need each other: it’s the only way it is achievable

 

[Kaka Tim]

social isolation is fucking toxic and is turning out dangerous fucked up individuals who are at war with the world (as well as a much larger cohort of people with substance abuse issues/depression/poor social skills/poor diet and physical health etc etc etc - and with a very high level of suicide - especially amongst men). Left alone the danger is that they drift so far from social norms they become self destructive or - as in this case - project that outwards. And find validity /normalisation for their fucked up thinking online.
Been working with programmes for several years aimed at reducing social isolation - walking groups, community choirs, games nights, music and drama projects - it brings people back into some form of positive social interaction - and id argue helps prevent people falling down these poisonous rabbit holes.