Several people shot dead in Plymouth 12 August 2021

[Colin Hunt]

I was reading about Blaenau Gwent yesterday: another poor place abandoned once the pits went. 1 in 6 of the population are on medication for depression, youth suicides are disturbingly high, 25% of the population reported mental or physical health conditions that are life affecting in the census return, drug and alcohol dependency has exploded over the last 49 years with intergenerational links clear. What Raymond Williams called ‘the resources of hope’ appear to be entirely drained from the place. An odd kind of privilege I reckon.

I liked your post because I agreed with almost everything you said. However I take issue with the bolded part. White privilege should not be an undefined term used to beat disadvantaged white people with. By adopting that approach (even in the pro-white working class way that you did) you're playing into the hands of those who seek to divide the working class.

Instead, I'd advocate seeing white privilege as a bundle of rights that white people have that non-white people of a similar status do not have, which obviously differs massively depending on underlying factors including class and geography. For example, a black woman living in Blaenau Gwent would, all things being equal, be more likely to die in childbirth or suffer a severe complication than a white woman. Similarly, a black man would, all things being equal, be more likely to die or be seriously injured in police custody.

I think such an approach is more helpful than your definition because it emphasises how much of white privilege is class-dependent, and how much of it emanates from the state and capitalism. In my view a 'working class first' approach has to account for white privilege in order to truly work for everyone that it needs to work for.

I'm not seeking an argument and I don't want to take this thread too far off-piste so I won't be talking about this topic again here. However if anyone has any thoughts on this I'd be interested in hearing them and my PM inbox is always available.

 

[Griff]

tbh i don't.
just finding what happened desperately sad.

It is desperately sad, but to aim vitriol at law-abiding people who own guns is misguided.

 

[Wilf]

That's always a shit argument. He could maybe have got one stranger (as well as his mum) but that's it. The only knife attacks that manage to harm multiple people are those with machetes and the like, which, unlike shotguns with a licence, are illegal.

Spot on.

 

[Griff]

That's always a shit argument. He could maybe have got one stranger (as well as his mum) but that's it. The only knife attacks that manage to harm multiple people are those with machetes and the like, which, unlike shotguns with a licence, are illegal.

Yeah, like that cunt at London Bridge with the kitchen knives taped to his wrists.

 

[LDC]

The only knife attacks that manage to harm multiple people are those with machetes and the like, which, unlike shotguns with a licence, are illegal.

Machetes are not illegal. Is that what you meant?

 

[scifisam]

Yeah, like that cunt at London Bridge with the kitchen knives taped to his wrists.

The one who managed to kill two people, you mean?

 

[Griff]

He would have killed more but was thankfully shot.

 

[scifisam]

Machetes are not illegal. Is that what you meant?

They usually have a curved blade, don't they? So they would be illegal unless they were really tiny (blade under 50cm), which makes it harder to quickly kill multiple people. I mean, it's not like knife laws are unrestricted, are they.

 

[LDC]

Given we already have the strictest gun control in probably the world it might be worth knowing whether it was a failure in the police process in approval rather than it being a failure of too loose gun laws themselves. I also think clamouring for the State to enact a complete banning of all firearms in private ownership is not the correct path, even if it is predictable. People just saying "Well, I don't see the need for someone to have one" as justification for this ban is on dodgy ground for a number of reasons imo.

 

[scifisam]

He would have killed more but was thankfully shot.

That's not how it went down at all. It really isn't a good example for your argument that knives would be just as bad.

 

[LDC]

They usually have a curved blade, don't they? So they would be illegal unless they were really tiny (blade under 50cm), which makes it harder to quickly kill multiple people.

No, machetes and other such tools are not illegal, curved blade or not (where did you get that from?) but they are illegal to carry in a public place without a good reason.

 

[Griff]

That's not how it went down at all. It really isn't a good example for your argument that knives would be just as bad.

Whatever, but knife deaths are way, way, more than legally owned gun deaths and you know that.

 

[Edie]

Enough with the soap stuff. If you lack self-worth, get depressed, one of the first things to go is looking after yourself. But it's the lack of self worth and depression that comes first, it's that that needs tackling. Soap comes much later.

And, not saying it relates to this bloke, but all of our pupils at school are minging. They have the no self-worth because of adverse childhood experiences (you may call it abuse) but they also come from dirty, filthy homes where soap for the kids may not be a priority.

Understand the problems, not the symptoms.

The way you talk about the children and young people you work with is really fucking horrible. The disrespect you have for them and their families is palpable. You don’t ‘advocate’ for them.

“All of our pupils at school are minging”. Would you say that in front of them? If not go fuck yourself.

 

[planetgeli]

The way you talk about the children and young people you work with is really fucking horrible. The disrespect you have for them and their families is palpable. You don’t ‘advocate’ for them.

“All of our pupils at school are minging”. Would you say that in front of them? If not go fuck yourself.

You seem to be a quite nasty person following me around a bit. You seem unable to read the actual content of my posts and enjoy a cheap shit remark thrown at me. You know the square root of fuck all about situations I deal with every day to try and inject good experiences in the lives of kids who have nothing but the worst experiences. Next time I step over some shitty discarded underpants on a doorstep of a bruised child I'm trying to get to school, I'll think of you.

 

[scifisam]

No, machetes and other such tools are not illegal, curved blade or not (where did you get that from?) but they are illegal to carry in a public place without a good reason.

Selling, buying and carrying knives and weapons

The laws on selling, buying and carrying a knife or weapon depend on the type of knife or weapon, your age and your circumstances.

www.gov.uk

Griff, glad you're getting some exercise by moving the goalposts there.

 

[Edie]

You seem to be a quite nasty person following me around a bit. You seem unable to read the actual content of my posts and enjoy a cheap shit remark thrown at me. You know the square root of fuck all about situations I deal with every day to try and inject good experiences in the lives of kids who have nothing but the worst experiences. Next time I step over some shitty discarded underpants on a doorstep of a bruised child I'm trying to get to school, I'll think of you.

Your not a hero. And they are not without dignity and autonomy and deserve respect. So stop talking about people being minging and dirty underwear and actually reflect on how you think about them.

 

[Griff]

Griff, glad you're getting some exercise by moving the goalposts there.

 

[A380]

The way you talk about the children and young people you work with is really fucking horrible. The disrespect you have for them and their families is palpable. You don’t ‘advocate’ for them.

“All of our pupils at school are minging”. Would you say that in front of them? If not go fuck yourself.

Whilst you aren't quite in the Tim camp you are way way out of line with this. planetgeli is one of the few posters on here who is actually at the sharp end trying to make some improvements to the life of those on the margins. I'd suggest searching a few of their posts and reading them, then I imagine you will probably want to delete your latest post.

 

[Pickman's model]

The irony...

View attachment 283554

i've always thought they took it particularly seriously, you don't get to be such a misogynist institution by treating it frivolously.

 

[Orang Utan]

Whatever, but knife deaths are way, way, more than legally owned gun deaths and you know that.

only because there are so many more knives about.
it’s psychologically much easier to pull a trigger than is to stick a blade into someone who is close enough to look you in the eye.

Your fun is less important than even one person’s death from a shooting

 

[Edie]

Whilst you aren't quite in the Tim camp you are way way out of line with this. planetgeli is one of the few posters on here who is actually at the sharp end trying to make some improvements to the life of those on the margins. I'd suggest searching a few of their posts and reading them, then I imagine you will probably want to delete your latest post.

Those at the sharp end need to be the most reflective on what they are thinking and saying. Cos that kind of attitude seeps out.

 

[Sue]

Given we already have the strictest gun control in probably the world it might be worth knowing whether it was a failure in the police process in approval rather than it being a failure of too loose gun laws themselves. I also think clamouring for the State to enact a complete banning of all firearms in private ownership is not the correct path, even if it is predictable. People just saying "Well, I don't see the need for someone to have one" as justification for this ban is on dodgy ground for a number of reasons imo.

People just saying 'Well I need a shotgun at home because I like to do a spot of clay pigeon shooting' as justification for owning one are on dodgy ground.

To be honest, I find it absolutely ludicrous that this is seen as a reasonable reason for being granted a gun license.

 

[A380]

Those at the sharp end need to be the most reflective on what they are thinking and saying. Cos that kind of attitude seeps out.

It's easy to be a saint from the top of a leafy hill. I suggest this detail of attacking another poster stops. Maybe start another thread.

 

[Edie]

It's easy to be a saint from the top of a leafy hill. I suggest this detail of attacking another poster stops. Maybe start another thread.

Don’t tell me what I can’t say. Or where I sit. If you want to defend him, defend him. But so far being at the sharp end doesn’t cut it.

 

[Steel Icarus]

planetgeli cares deeply about the kids he looks after and yes, advocates for. It's not Michelle Pfeiffer in Dangerous Minds, that kind of work, it's grubby and hard and horrific often, and if you see things as you'd like them to be rather than how they are you won't get far with the kids let alone get them anywhere.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

People just saying 'Well I need a shotgun at home because I like to do a spot of clay pigeon shooting' as justification for owning one are on dodgy ground.

To be honest, I find it absolutely ludicrous that this is seen as a reasonable reason for being granted a gun license.

Yeah, maybe they should just give the clays a hard stare, that’d work

 

[A380]

Don’t tell me what I can’t say. Or where I sit. If you want to defend him, defend him. But so far being at the sharp end doesn’t cut it.

Please don't make this thread about you, five people are dead.

 

[pogofish]

Yeah, I think there's definite links in terms of them both emerging from the same spaces, basically 4chan/8chan and reddit. I think the incel "beta/omega" types and the self-styled "alphas" certainly overlap ideologically in terms of their obsession with natural hierarchies, belief that "alpha/beta/omega" is a real coherent thing that exists among humans and so on. Beyond that, I'd also say it's worth going back to Gamergate as a really important moment for both movements, like Milo's so washed-up and irrelevant now that it's hard to remember a time when he sort of mattered but he was one of the first important faces of the alt-right/alt-lite and he made his name in Gamergate. That moment was also when Milo's boss at Breitbart, one Steve Bannon, first realised that angry young men on the internet were a constituency that could be mobilised.

It was gathering pace for the best part of a decade before that IME. I remember friends and colleagues (some of whom were undoubtedly somewhere on the spectrum/had social issues) going at least part way down that rabbit hole in the early-mid 2000s and a lot of the right-wing grooming was becoming obvious even then but by the 2010’s it was very apparent - Milo/Bannon/Trump etc IMO like most good fascists, devoid of ideas of their own, simply latched on to something that was already happening and could be bent to their purposes.

I even remember one or two attempts to insinuate themselves on here in that period but thankfully they were promptly repelled. Another board I used to post-on wasn’t so lucky - it gave them an ear and was promptly overrun - which is when I looked at the places they were coming from, saw the mess waiting and promptly fucked-off.

Looked back there for the first time in about a decade earlier and the incels/misogynistic types who now dominate discussion there are now arguing amongst themselves/deflecting any idea that he was or was once one of their own “He can’t be an Incel, he shot his own mother, we all love our mothers…” seems to be a common line taken.

 

[planetgeli]

Thanks, appreciated, and I mean that, but it's water off a duck's back. Almost like the work I'm involved in leads to good positive relationships that are a reward in themselves and negate any shit some people for their own agendas seem to want to throw at me.

 

[Sue]

Yeah, maybe they should just give the clays a hard stare, that’d work

Or they could take up chess or swimming or rambling or whatever else instead. .