[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

[LDC]

I don't recognise this gap which omits e.g. the anti-war movement, the g8 in Scotland, the ayn, the g20 etc.

I did think at the early end it included much of the anti-war movement of 2002/2003 though. (When was the massive anti-war demo in London, as that felt like 'the end' of the movement to some extent.)

Anyway, it wasn't that I felt there wasn't things happening in that gap, but to me the G8 and the other things you mentioned were largely involving people already active, rather than a wave of 'new people'. (And also felt like 'the end' of the wave of large mobilizations of earlier years.)

Anecdotally from the people I chat to many involved in the ideological clashes were alluding to do date their involvement from 2010/11 student wave.

But like I said, more a feeling from personal interactions than absolute fact.

 

[chilango]

I don't recognise this gap which omits e.g. the anti-war movement, the g8 in Scotland, the ayn, the g20 etc.

The anti-war movement peaked in 2003 iirc. and because of its size and the a to b marching scope of most of its activities doesn’t really provide any solid link between the activism of the 90s to early 00s and the stuff from this decade imo.

Perhaps the G8 and the G20 stuff provide a continuity of sorts between the summit hopping of the turn of the millennium and the occupy wave. But it’s a slender thread.

But then I was out of the country for the decade so I’m perhaos not best placed to comment

 

[LDC]

If we can just blame students and the internet for this mess things would be much easier.

 

[chilango]

An example of what I’m talking about would be in in a University city where I was once active we set up an anarchist group largely in isolation. One had previously existed up until a couple of years before, but all its members had dropped out or moved on. When our group similarly disintegrated after a few years none of us remained for the next group which followed a year or two later.

Probably 15 -20 year’s of activity across the 3 groups but not a single activist (or structure) in common.

Though I suspect a few old Trots had engaged with all three.

 

[Pickman's model]

I did think at the early end it included much of the anti-war movement of 2002/2003 though. (When was the massive anti-war demo in London, as that felt like 'the end' of the movement to some extent.)

Anyway, it wasn't that I felt there wasn't things happening in that gap, but to me the G8 and the other things you mentioned were largely involving people already active, rather than a wave of 'new people'. (And also felt like 'the end' of the wave of large mobilizations of earlier years.)

Anecdotally from the people I chat to many involved in the ideological clashes were alluding to do date their involvement from 2010/11 student wave.

But like I said, more a feeling from personal interactions than absolute fact.

Forgetting the schoolchildren who came out against the war, for example. Frankly I'd be better pleased if as many people out in the August of '11 had found their way into the movement as came from the student demos

 

[campanula]

Mmm - don't recall significant gaps either...although I do remember the wholesale decamping to environmentalism (Climate Camp et al) which certainly influenced the emergent political awareness of my offspring.
I did come of age (politically) in the 70s - the heyday of (sometimes uneasy) alliances and coalitions reproductive rights, wages for housework,, Stonewall, unionism and housing rights)...and even then, the fracture lines between, say, the Grunwick workers and the blatant profiteering of scummy landlords were being submerged in an increasingly individualistic, therapy fixated floating of the identity galleon. Thatcher certainly kickstarted another round of a more materialist analysis ( recognisable, to this wc single parent vaguely hippified waster) The feminist movement was my first bewildering betrayal, mind. Cycles round though.

 

[rich!]

It's a class thing.

Sorry, what part of the argument between transgender people and feminists is a class thing? Genuine question because I totally dont get this.

 

[Shechemite]

Made the guardian..

Transgender rights row intensifies as book fair is cancelled

 

[DaveCinzano]

Made the guardian..

Transgender rights row intensifies as book fair is cancelled

Which predictably presents it as a consumer rights issue

 

[Nice one]

i've known members of the bookfair collective since my days as a callow youth in haringey anti-poll tax union and i have always known them to be upright, upfront and honest. so you can fuck right off with your accusations of dishonesty, partiality and stupidity.

putting aside the very large elephant in the room, when a young female immigrant woman of colour was systematically bullied by a group of white males (when she was part of a long running anarchist institution) the only person who stood up for her was the main organiser of the bookfair.

Given that the anarchist scene seem aggrieved over excluding persecuted minortities i think it's time that this woman's story needs to be made very public. And all those involved, however partial, need to be confronted.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Tell the story then.

 

[bimble]

Made the guardian..

Transgender rights row intensifies as book fair is cancelled

I can't tell if people are being misquoted or if what they are saying is just nonsense.
Eg)
"A 27-year-old anarchist and trans person who hosted a talk at the fair said she was disappointed in the decision of the organisers, which she said reflected their inability to show a united front against leafleteers.
“But I’m disappointed in so many people criticising them into that position too,” she added.
“The book fair situation shows the need for people to pick a side – that not picking a side is just not good enough. ."

 

[LDC]

Sorry, what part of the argument between transgender people and feminists is a class thing? Genuine question because I totally dont get this.

Sure butchersapron will be along to say what he meant by it, but for me while this doesn't explain all the nuance of individual disputes and disagreements that fall under the trans/radfem conflict, underneath this row (and is mirrored by a wider ideological battle) are two fundamental ways of understanding the world; a materialist anarchist/communist class perspective that's rooted in solidarity, collective struggle, and freedom - or a identity politics outlook that's rooted in individual difference and rights.

It's related to the destruction of class as a political category, a surge in individualism, the unquestioning support for State multiculturalism on the left, a lack of collective memory of mass struggle, a disillusionment with the possibility of social change, etc.

Urgh, too early and not enough coffee to be doing this.

 

[Nice one]

This doesn't explain all the nuance of individual disputes and disagreements that fall under the trans/radfem conflict, but for me underneath this row (and is mirrored by a wider ideological battle) are two fundamental ways of understanding the world; a materialist anarchist/communist class perspective that's rooted in solidarity, collective struggle, and freedom - or a identity politics outlook that's rooted in individual difference and rights.

It's related to the destruction of class as a political category, a surge in individualism, the unquestioning support for State multiculturalism on the left, a lack of collective memory of mass struggle, a disillusionment with the possibility of social change, etc.

how does that explain the first groups to criticise the bookfair were bristol af, edinburgh af, class war, libcom, and other class struggle anarchy group subsequently coming out in support of the critical bookfair statement?

The argument that this is somehow a more elaborate version of lifestyle anarchism v class struggle anarchism doesn't fit.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sure butchersapron will be along to say what he meant by it, but for me while this doesn't explain all the nuance of individual disputes and disagreements that fall under the trans/radfem conflict, underneath this row (and is mirrored by a wider ideological battle) are two fundamental ways of understanding the world; a materialist anarchist/communist class perspective that's rooted in solidarity, collective struggle, and freedom - or a identity politics outlook that's rooted in individual difference and rights.

It's related to the destruction of class as a political category, a surge in individualism, the unquestioning support for State multiculturalism on the left, a lack of collective memory of mass struggle, a disillusionment with the possibility of social change, etc.

Urgh, too early and not enough coffee to be doing this.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if many positions on this were determined at least as much by who is mates / enemies with who as the actual politics of the thing

 

[LDC]

how does that explain the first groups to criticise the bookfair were bristol af, edinburgh af, class war, libcom, and other class struggle anarchy group subsequently coming out in support of the critical bookfair statement?

The argument that this is somehow a more elaborate version of lifestyle anarchism v class struggle anarchism doesn't fit.

Like I said, I don't think it explains the whole thing (and I'm simplifying it for brevity), and some political groups and people have reconciled the two perspectives for sure. But there's also a current within anarchism that has taken on identity politics wholesale, and some of the people from that are in some of those groups.

And while some elements are more complex I think one of the differences that goes with the dispute is a difference in how different perspectives are regarded and discussed. So, one of the things that I see as a difference between the perspectives is one where some tendencies have an expansive view of the world where it's possible to differ but still be on the same side, whereas the other is much more closed and protective of its boundaries.

I also agree with Pickman's model that this has a huge chunk of personal connections related shit going on as well.

 

[chilango]

how does that explain the first groups to criticise the bookfair were bristol af, edinburgh af, class war, libcom, and other class struggle anarchy group subsequently coming out in support of the critical bookfair statement?

The argument that this is somehow a more elaborate version of lifestyle anarchism v class struggle anarchism doesn't fit.

From a distance (it must be stressed) it appears that plenty of ostensibly “class struggle” groups have either - as LynnDoyleCooper says above - either collectively or via weight of individuals within them taken up elements of stuff in common with idpol in varying degrees.

It may be that newer activists - often those within the most “energy” - have come from the same source as those pushing idpol.

It may be - as seems to be the case with groups like Plan C - there is already a theoretical commitment to some of the same “subjects” as the idpol crowd. Even if coming from a autonomish rather than liberal perspective?

I don’t know what’s going on in the AF or CW, perhaps someone involved wants to explain?

I’ve heard nothing from the IWW or SolFed yet.

Whatever, I don’t think all this started with the bookfair incident. Nor is it confined to anarchism.

But I do think the Anarchist movement here (and it’s fellow travellers) is small enough, and weak enough right now, to take a real big hit from all of this.

Does that matter anymore?

 

[LDC]

And so many of these anarchist groups are tiny (a few people, a handful at most) it's quite easy for them to have a couple of people really influence the outlook.

 

[chilango]

...and as far as the personal connections stuff. Absolutely. As has always been the case. Hence my point above about most earlier spats being based in London. Usually (though not always) the only place with a big enough scene to accommodate personal disputes without the scene collapsing.

I do wonder (repeatedly I know!) whether the ease of communication and building personal profiles and networks online has now enabled the geographical diffusion if personal based disputes.

Regardless, that’s here to stay. For better or worse.

 

[chilango]

And so many of these anarchist groups are tiny (a few people, a handful at most) it's quite easy for them to have a couple of people really influence the outlook.

The whole point of the national orgs (IMO) is to provide a continuity, a “line”... a counter-balance to the ever changing responsiveness of the more ad hoc groups that appear and fade like mushrooms on an autumn morning... “let a thousand fungi bloom” - if they fall prey to a handful of people’s “whims” then what’s the point in them?

I think I’ve had too much coffee.

 

[butchersapron]

Most sections of most anarchist federations are really just a facebook page sharing stuff they have been sent, a poorly maintained blog and one person animating a tiny group of people - four or five at most. Their name appended to a statement has no real weight. It doesn't represent a generational change, the birth of a new theoretical movement or approach or anything beyond what has annoyed them this week.

 

[Athos]

Also, I'm sure that some of the endorsements of the open letter don't reflect unanimity within the group whose view the signature purports to represent.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Why not stop with the class policing and let a discussion happen.

Fair enough, I’d had a drink and was wound up by it all which isn’t the best situation for discussion.

Oh you guys. If I can be arsed tomorrow when sober I may just try and explain exactly how annoying this whole discussion has got. #mansplaining.

Otoh, meh.

I’d like to hear it if you still want to.

 

[Nice one]

Most sections of most anarchist federations are really just a facebook page sharing stuff they have been sent, a poorly maintained blog and one person animating a tiny group of people - four or five at most. Their name appended to a statement has no real weight. It doesn't represent a generational change, the birth of a new theoretical movement or approach or anything beyond what has annoyed them this week.

and yet they managed to put an end to the anarchist bookfair (the last, in fact the only, visible sign the uk had an anarchist movement at all). That's a mighty bit of class power for a couple of facebook pages.

I think it was four afed groups who produced and signed the letter of disassociation - which shouldn't have been enough for the bookfair people to throw the towel in (two other anarchy groups signed the open letter), it was probably the deafening silence of every other anarchy group in the country failing to show support that killed it. As faultlines go that's pretty emphatic.

What do you think annoyed those four af groups that week to make such a move?

 

[planetgeli]

it was probably the deafening silence of every other anarchy group in the country failing to show support that killed it.

Absolute bollocks.

 

[Nice one]

Absolute bollocks.

are you involved in now or never?

 

[planetgeli]

are you involved in now or never?

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there because as seven words on their own they make no sense, but as far as the bookfair goes I'm pretty sure, from knowing people who have been long term supporters of it, that the organisers would have had plenty of support from individual anarchists and groups who have been regular attenders and who see the bookfair as perhaps the only platform they have to get their message across to lots of people. And these same people and groups would have seen the destruction of the bookfair as being caused by the triumph of individual identity politics arguments over anarchism. Your representation of anarchism as being the sole preserve of two facebook pages and a dog does a massive disservice to those who have stood up for noble anarchist causes for years. And that's why you're talking bollocks.

 

[TopCat]

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there because as seven words on their own they make no sense, but as far as the bookfair goes I'm pretty sure, from knowing people who have been long term supporters of it, that the organisers would have had plenty of support from individual anarchists and groups who have been regular attenders and who see the bookfair as perhaps the only platform they have to get their message across to lots of people. And these same people and groups would have seen the destruction of the bookfair as being caused by the triumph of individual identity politics arguments over anarchism. Your representation of anarchism as being the sole preserve of two facebook pages and a dog does a massive disservice to those who have stood up for noble anarchist causes for years. And that's why you're talking bollocks.

Nah its more that those groups who signed the statement condemning the bookfair organisers represented at best three people and a dog.

 

[ska invita]

Nah its more that those groups who signed the statement condemning the bookfair organisers represented at best three people and a dog.

The current tally on the open letter

Adam Ma’anit
anarchwaethus
Andrea L
Architectural Workers
Artists Against Prisons
Base – Publication
Bridget Hart
Brighton Anti-Raids
Brighton Solfed
Bristol People of Colour Collective
CHARMPIT
East End Sisters Uncut
English Collective of Prostitutes
Enragés
Fiona Broadhurst
Fourth Wave: London Feminist Activists
Giz Medium
Global Women’s Strike
Haringey Anti-Raids
Hydra Books
Jacob V Joyce
Jamie Scott
Jewdas
Kevin Sanders
London ABC
London Queer Picnic
Members of 56a Infoshop Collective
Mental Health Under Capitalism
North London Food Not Bombs
Objects of Desire
Payday (a network of men working with the Global Women’s Strike)
Salvage Collective
Silver Press
Simon Barron
Sisters Uncut – North London
Sisters Uncut – South East London
Sorry You Feel Uncomfortable
STRIKE Magazine
Stephanie Webber
SWARM (Sex Worker Advocacy and Resistance Movement)
Trans Survival Trans Defence
Queer Strike
Queerspace East
Will Sharkey
Women of Colour in the Global Women’s Strike

 

[Pickman's model]

The current tally on the open letter

Adam Ma’anit
anarchwaethus
Andrea L
Architectural Workers
Artists Against Prisons
Base – Publication
Bridget Hart
Brighton Anti-Raids
Brighton Solfed
Bristol People of Colour Collective
CHARMPIT
East End Sisters Uncut
English Collective of Prostitutes
Enragés
Fiona Broadhurst
Fourth Wave: London Feminist Activists
Giz Medium
Global Women’s Strike
Haringey Anti-Raids
Hydra Books
Jacob V Joyce
Jamie Scott
Jewdas
Kevin Sanders
London ABC
London Queer Picnic
Members of 56a Infoshop Collective
Mental Health Under Capitalism
North London Food Not Bombs
Objects of Desire
Payday (a network of men working with the Global Women’s Strike)
Salvage Collective
Silver Press
Simon Barron
Sisters Uncut – North London
Sisters Uncut – South East London
Sorry You Feel Uncomfortable
STRIKE Magazine
Stephanie Webber
SWARM (Sex Worker Advocacy and Resistance Movement)
Trans Survival Trans Defence
Queer Strike
Queerspace East
Will Sharkey
Women of Colour in the Global Women’s Strike

Which open letter's this? With all the statements I'm a little confused