[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

[Athos]

I have no particular view on what the BF organisers should or shouldn't have done in terms of managing their event. Hence not joining in that part of the discussion.

I have discovered I have a strong view on people who distribute what I believe is hate speech. I'm still somewhat surprised by the amount of ignoring the leaflet content that's going on.

Are people ignoring the content? Or, rather, focusing on resolving the practical dilemma that content posed for the organisers (of which you've opted out, whereas they couldn't)? Anyway, I"m concentrating on the Ashes, now, so I'll say goodnight to this thread.

 

[rich!]

Why were you at the book fair then if you have no position on class politics?
Because it’s those people who have thrown it under a bus. And you should fuck off as far as I’m concerned.

"Anarchist" bookfair, rather than "Marxist" bookfair, I thought.

Anyway, thanks for your kind wishes. I have no idea what I've done to deserve them but I will treasure them as the kisses of angels.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

"Anarchist" bookfair, rather than "Marxist" bookfair, I thought.

Anyway, thanks for your kind wishes. I have no idea what I've done to deserve them but I will treasure them as the kisses of angels.

Don’t you run a business and employ people?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Politics isn’t a fashion statement.

 

[LDC]

Can't work out how to double quote, but Magnus McGinty said:

"Why were you at the book fair then if you have no position on class politics?"

...and then you said...

"Anarchist" bookfair, rather than "Marxist" bookfair, I thought.

I'd be interested to see you elaborate on that please because it reads very much like you think class is solely a Marxist issue?

 

[rich!]

Don’t you run a business and employ people?

...wage ratio about 2, 90% of the shares in the hands of employees, anyone who's been there for more than 3 years is a shareholder, ethical review of work we do...

 

[LDC]

Someone who asserts that the content of the leaflets which sparked this controversy are not worth examining that would make for a damn fine specimen of a complete fool.

But nobody, least of all I, said that. I said reducing it to being solely about the leaflets was a mistake.

 

[LDC]

.

 

[nyxx]

The leaflets symptoms of an ongoing controversy, sweetling

Do you really think that interspersing all your “points” with insults, derogatory comments & patronising taunts makes them appear stronger?

 

[rich!]

Can't work out how to double quote, but Magnus McGinty said:

"Why were you at the book fair then if you have no position on class politics?"

...and then you said...

" "Anarchist" bookfair, rather than "Marxist" bookfair, I thought."

I'd be interested to see you elaborate on that please because it reads very much like you think class is solely a Marxist issue?

I wasn't aware a position on class politics was a requirement for attending the bookfair. I haven't stated a position on class politics.

And I was being slightly facetious there - I am aware class is a major issue in most strands of anarchism but I come to it more from an analysis of power if I had to explain how I got there.

 

[LDC]

I am aware class is a major issue in most strands of anarchism but I come to it more from an analysis of power if I had to explain how I got there.

And what is class if not an analysis of the power differences that make capitalism possible?

 

[nyxx]

I did ask you to elaborate on that but it seems you’ve missed that & piled in on someone else’s attack instead... re read the post you were quoting & you’ll see it was in response to “pickmans model”

But nobody, least of all I, said that. I said reducing it to being solely about the leaflets was a mistake.

 

[rich!]

And what is class if not an analysis of the power differences that make capitalism possible?

Fair point.

 

[nyxx]

...contd, to “LynneDoyleCooper”
What I asked of you, is copied here for ease of reference:

How is actually debating the content of the leaflets “reducing the debate”? Is there a context in which you do think it’s acceptable to discuss them?
What are you actually getting at with the first post I quoted anyway - is the actual incident and specific campaign group which sparked this off somehow off limits except in specific circumstances now?
I can’t see what else you mean by it, given the placing of it, but if I’ve misunderstood you please elaborate.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And what is class if not an analysis of the power differences that make capitalism possible?

Lots to say on how terribly transphobic these anarchists are - but now what? He discouraged people from using a local business to align with his prejudices. What are cunts like this doing at the book fair?

 

[rich!]

Lots to say on how terribly transphobic these anarchists are - but now what? He discouraged people from using a local business to align with his prejudices. What are cunts like this doing at the book fair?

Lots to say on the intervention in the bookfair by a transphobic green party member and their colleagues. Can't see where I said all the anarchists are transphobes.

I suggested *other* pubs and gave reasons. Sorry if that fails some test which I wasn't aware of. You've really got a bee in your bonnet about that. Are you the landlord or in some other way losing out from people not spending money in that particular pub?

Also, nice use of language there. Choice insult.

Presumably you'll be operating the thought police at any future radical events to ensure people not aligned with your views are prohibited?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Lots to say on the intervention in the bookfair by a transphobic green party member and their colleagues. Can't see where I said all the anarchists are transphobes.

I suggested *other* pubs and gave reasons. Sorry if that fails some test which I wasn't aware of. You've really got a bee in your bonnet about that. Are you the landlord or in some other way losing out from people not spending money in that particular pub?

Also, nice use of language there. Choice insult.

Presumably you'll be operating the thought police at any future radical events to ensure people not aligned with your views are prohibited?

My issue is that you’re not part of the class struggle so any comment by yourself is irrelevant. This is true for most people that attend the book fair and pretend to be working class so don’t feel hard done by. It died years ago from you tourist cunts.

 

[rich!]

My issue is that you’re not part of the class struggle so any comment by yourself is irrelevant. This is true for most people that attend the book fair and pretend to be working class so don’t feel hard done by. It died years ago from you tourist cunts.

Oh fine, no worries. I've never pretended to be working class - that would be fecking stupid - and out of courtesy of course I wouldn't attend an event like the one you seem to want it to be.

Personally, I find the existence of an event where a wide range of radical/anarchist thought and material is present and available to be a great thing, and I try and support the various organisations there as best I can within my other constraints. But, y'know, I'm a "tourist c***" so I'm irrelevant to whatever it is you're trying to do.

 

[Sue]

Oh you guys. If I can be arsed tomorrow when sober I may just try and explain exactly how annoying this whole discussion has got. #mansplaining.

Otoh, meh.

 

[redsquirrel]

Can't work out how to double quote, but Magnus McGinty said:

Use +Quote button in bottom RHC

 

[Red Cat]

My issue is that you’re not part of the class struggle so any comment by yourself is irrelevant. This is true for most people that attend the book fair and pretend to be working class so don’t feel hard done by. It died years ago from you tourist cunts.

Why not stop with the class policing and let a discussion happen.

 

[Red Cat]

So, it would be helpful to the discussion if people wouldn't mind spelling out what they think is being played out upon the peg of this debate*. I don't really understand what's going on politically.

* conflict not debate

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you really think that interspersing all your “points” with insults, derogatory comments & patronising taunts makes them appear stronger?

Yeh. You refuse, I see, to deal with the substance of my posts and seem to desire solely to discuss their form.

 

[Pickman's model]

My issue is that you’re not part of the class struggle so any comment by yourself is irrelevant. This is true for most people that attend the book fair and pretend to be working class so don’t feel hard done by. It died years ago from you tourist cunts.

Eh? How do people stop being part of the class struggle? I was under the impression everyone's in it, some on the side of the boss class and others opposing them.

 

[chilango]

For me, it raises questions about the tone and form that (some) activism is taking. Some thoughts springing to the top of my mind include:

• This reminds me of stuff I’ve encountered over the years in the NUS. Something about these kind of arenas being “safer” for those seeking to indulge in grandstanding?
• It’s very inward facing. And entirely negative.
• The impact of social media - especially Twitter on the tone of contributions and the forming of groups and setting of lines.
• Statements. So many fucking statements.
• Condemnflation and increasingly prescriptive forms of writing.

...but they’re just thoughts. Of mine. As an observer from a distance. They’re not new to this incident. There've been other examples, increasingly, over recent years. I think both the commentariat thread and the idpol thread also touch on some of this.

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone who asserts that the content of the leaflets which sparked this controversy are not worth examining that would make for a damn fine specimen of a complete fool.

Yeh. I didn't say the contents not worth examining - you're telling lies, my lovely. Your apparent belief that there was no controversy before these leaflets, that these leaflets form the sole bones of contention, that there was no 'terf'/trans beef before: it's bollocks.

 

[sunnysidedown]

Books are a distraction from the abolition of class society and the inclusion of the word book in the event name was always going to attract the wrong sort. Maybe just have an Anarchist Fair, Magnus can bring his pigeons.

 

[Pickman's model]

Books are a distraction from the abolition of class society and the inclusion of the word book in the event name was always going to attract the wrong sort. Maybe just have an Anarchist Fair, Magnus can bring his pigeons.

We could have a shooting gallery and coconut shy

 

[newbie]

• Condemnflation

that's a great, and very apposite, word

 

[planetgeli]

We could have a shooting gallery

Radical suggestion Pickman's model. About time anarchism got with the programme on drugs legalisation.