[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

[ska invita]

What, like cis?

like liberal
like anarchist

 

[TopCat]

i count about 6 of the signatories who were definitely at the fair this weekend - there may be more...i am quite shocked that people would make such a serious claim and not substantiate it. The detail is likely left out as I think "allows racist imperialism, anti-semitism, Islamophobia, misogyny ... to ingratiate themselves as part of the culture of the Bookfair" all refers to the Active banner that says religion is (murderous sexist) shit (or whatever it is that it says) remaining being allowed to be hung up! Thats pretty much the claim made by signatory Jacob V Joyce in his much shared facebook post (posted here a couple of pages back).

Can't help but notice that despite signing a letter which demands "a commitment to continue the “no cameras” and “no filming” rule without exception given" Jacob thought it was okay to post a photo of J Active taken at the bookfair on facebook and let it go viral.

I handed out out thousands of in yer face anti religious stickers at the bookfair in the past.
Now we have supposed anarchists defending religion. A sorry state.

 

[Thimble Queen]

i count about 6 of the signatories who were definitely at the fair this weekend - there may be more...i am quite shocked that people would make such a serious claim and not substantiate it. The detail is likely left out as I think "allows racist imperialism, anti-semitism, Islamophobia, misogyny ... to ingratiate themselves as part of the culture of the Bookfair" all refers to the Active banner that says religion is (murderous sexist) shit (or whatever it is that it says) remaining being allowed to be hung up! Thats pretty much the claim made by signatory Jacob V Joyce in his much shared facebook post (posted here a couple of pages back).

Can't help but notice that despite signing a letter which demands "a commitment to continue the “no cameras” and “no filming” rule without exception given" Jacob thought it was okay to post a photo of J Active taken at the bookfair on facebook and let it go viral.

Yeah the thing about the photo stuck out to me too. Odd.

 

[killer b]

Anarchists and liberals think of themselves as anarchists and liberals though, even if those words are sometimes used as insults. I Don't know any radical feminists who'll take on 'terf' tho.

 

[TopCat]

The late great anarchist Anthony and others helped me make and hand out these.

Disclaimer:The Dulwich Hamlet sticker is nothing to with the others, not mine.

 

[ska invita]

Anarchists and liberals think of themselves as anarchists and liberals though, even if those words are sometimes used as insults. I Don't know any radical feminists who'll take on 'terf' tho.

thats because they've hidden the trans-exclusionary bit into their personal definition of "woman"....it no longer needs saying after that.

(as to Cis, do I think of myself as Cis? Not often, but if prompted to stop and think, does my gender identity match my birth sex, then yes, I think of myself as cis. )

 

[Pickman's model]

The late great anarchist Anthony and others helped me make and hand out these.

Disclaimer:The Dulwich Hamlet sticker is nothing to with the others, not mine.

Yeh, the religion is stupid bit's round 12 years auld

 

[Pickman's model]

I handed out out thousands of in yer face anti religious stickers at the bookfair in the past.
Now we have supposed anarchists defending religion. A sorry state.

Yeh this is a new strain of anarchism, gods and masters/mistresses

 

[TopCat]

That the bookfair has gone on so long is testement to the patience and commitment of the organisers.
Plus from attendees a goodly dose of tolerance (not respect mind you) for the odd, the opposing and the bat shit crazy. I mean Green Anarchist used to have a stall.
There has been regular trouble too over the years. I never have heard though until now anarchists calling for the bookfair to be stopped or trying to stampede the organisers into an impossible corner.

 

[TopCat]

thats because they've hidden the trans-exclusionary bit into their personal definition of "woman"....it no longer needs saying after that.

(as to Cis, do I think of myself as Cis? Not often, but if prompted to stop and think, does my gender identity match my birth sex, then yes, I think of myself as cis. )

Labelling again. I lately think of the court official who labelled me a Father of a mixed race child. She couldn't understand why I was so vexed.

 

[smokedout]

Anarchists and liberals think of themselves as anarchists and liberals though, even if those words are sometimes used as insults. I Don't know any radical feminists who'll take on 'terf' tho.

They tend to call themselves gender critical feminists and expect everyone else to use that term with all the baggage it implies (Which is that to be critical of gender you have to be trans exclusionary)

 

[Magnus McGinty]

If any good can come out of this it’s the idpol crowd boycotting it. But they won’t. They’ll continue to turn up with their disputes.

 

[TopCat]

This sort of tactic grates.

 

[TopCat]

Yeh this is a new strain of anarchism, gods and masters/mistresses

The new mantra,"You can't speak, do as you'r e told".

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The new mantra,"You can't speak, do as you'r e told".

With thought police patrolling the grounds to ensure compliance.

 

[shygirl]

Like some others, I'm still trying to figure all this stuff out so can anyone answer this quick question: who came up with the acronym "Terf"? Where did it come from? Thanks.

Though not an explanation of it's provenance, here are some examples of the kind of violence and abuse that so-called 'terfs' attract from the trans community/activists:

TERF is a slur

 

[shygirl]

from the sisterhood for a start. do you really need this explaining?

from the sisterhood for a start. do you really need this explaining?

It's not a club.

 

[shygirl]

Yeah the thing about the photo stuck out to me too. Odd.

Not really, seems increasingly like what's sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Not really, seems increasingly like what's sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

Non-binary Anatidae.

 

[smokedout]

Though not an explanation of it's provenance, here are some examples of the kind of violence and abuse that so-called 'terfs' attract from the trans community/activists:

TERF is a slur

Perhaps take a look at the twanzphobic blog or the history of death threats and sometimes violent attacks on transwomen by some radical feminists that date back to the 70s and you might get some idea where this animosity came from.

TERF hate and Sandy Stone – The TransAdvocate

 

[smokedout]

Im sorry but anyone with even a superficial knowledge of this diapute, and with no agenda, would accept there has been unpleasant comments and behaviour from both sides. The key differences, terfs started it and trans activists dont get to do this in the national press like burchill, bindel amd greer.

 

[killer b]

It's undeniable there's bad behaviour on all sides - part of the reason for that is the entrenched positions (yep, on both sides) people are forced into by the tenor of the argument.

No-one is winning right now, and everyone is losing.

 

[Shechemite]

This sort of tactic grates.

What’s going on there?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Practice for the annual annoying olympics.

 

[krink]

apols if my language is clumsy but is this more or less right;

a trans woman is a person who was born male
a trans man is a person who was born female

As someone who has no prior knowledge of all this it's sometimes very difficult to filter out the bias and opinions etc from the stuff i've been reading online. I just want to understand it as it clearly massively important to those involved.

 

[krink]

No-one is winning right now, and everyone is losing.

that's my impression so far

 

[Pickman's model]

It's undeniable there's bad behaviour on all sides - part of the reason for that is the entrenched positions (yep, on both sides) people are forced into by the tenor of the argument.

No-one is winning right now, and everyone is losing.

1) there are more than two sides

2)

 

[eoin_k]

apols if my language is clumsy but is this more or less right;

a trans woman is a person who was born male
a trans man is a person who was born female

As someone who has no prior knowledge of all this it's sometimes very difficult to filter out the bias and opinions etc from the stuff i've been reading online. I just want to understand it as it clearly massively important to those involved.

They often prefer to be described as 'assigned (fe)male at birth, rather than 'born', but you've essentially got the direction of travel right.

 

[krink]

They often prefer to be described as 'assigned (fe)male at birth, rather than 'born', but you've essentially got the direction of travel right.

ok got it, thanks

 

[shygirl]

Im sorry but anyone with even a superficial knowledge of this diapute, and with no agenda, would accept there has been unpleasant comments and behaviour from both sides. The key differences, terfs started it and trans activists dont get to do this in the national press like burchill, bindel amd greer.

Women/feminists have supported trans rights going way back into the 70's. There wasn't hostility until trans women started to demand access to our most private places, blaming us for the all the violence they endured (like it wasn't fucking raging, vile men attacking them), and reaching the point where it is now anathema to talk about our cunts, tits, periods (oh, and don't complain about period pain, else you'll be told you're ungrateful and they would give anything to experience periods), breast-feeding, giving birth, all in case we might hurt their feelings. So no, it didn't start with feminists as you assert.