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Saddleworth Moor fire is getting serious...

It's finally going to be raised in Parliament . The Mayors contacting the Home Sec for more resources and firefighters.

Well, I guess it's good that Andy Burnham has finally woken-up & decided to ask for extra help, but as he's not an MP, I am struggling with the connection between him & the suggestion it's finally going to be raised in Parliament.
 
Well, I guess it's good that Andy Burnham has finally woken-up & decided to ask for extra help, but as he's not an MP, I am struggling with the connection between him & the suggestion it's finally going to be raised in Parliament.

I'd guess either the Labour front bench of one of the many Labour MPs from Greater Manchester will do it.
 
I'd guess either the Labour front bench of one of the many Labour MPs from Greater Manchester will do it.

You're guessing, whereas The39thStep seems to have made a very direct factual claim that, 'It's finally going to be raised in Parliament', I am interested in knowing where this come from, considering I am following the story very closely*, and not seen this mentioned.

I did see Burnham interviewed earlier* saying he was going to contact the Home Sec, and thought, what a self serving publicly seeking twat, considering he clearly hasn't been that bothered up to this point in time, otherwise he would have pulled his finger out of his arse earlier.

* this being in the national media coverage, that The39thStep's seems to think isn't happening, and as The39thStep is making such false claims over that, I am assuming this latest claim is also false, but would be happy to be proved wrong.
 
..I did see Burnham interviewed earlier* saying he was going to contact the Home Sec, and thought, what a self serving publicly seeking twat, considering he clearly hasn't been that bothered up to this point in time, otherwise he would have pulled his finger out of his arse earlier....

Burnham must have pulled his finger out some time ago, as without the aforementioned digit the MOD would not have acceeded to GMFRS request for air and ground support - it's also only he that could request that such support be extended in duration from the initial 48 hours.

The 'finally getting to parliament' thing isn't about support, it's about money - the MOD isn't a charity, it's helicopters are ruinously expensive to own and operate, and if they are going to be be burning through flying and maintenance hours the MOD would like some compensation for such. The govt will therefore offer affected areas some contingency funding that will cover the additional expenses they are having to cough up.

Of course, the Government has doubtless already told local authorities that it will help with the bills, some frontbench goat will have a rant about money and some smooth chap from the Government will make him look silly by saying 'we've already discussed it, the money is available' - Burnham gets the money, and the Tories, and Burnham (no fan of Corbyn or his goats) get to smile at Corbyns fox being rather publicly shot...
 
Burnham must have pulled his finger out some time ago, as without the aforementioned digit the MOD would not have acceeded to GMFRS request for air and ground support - it's also only he that could request that such support be extended in duration from the initial 48 hours.

The 'finally getting to parliament' thing isn't about support, it's about money - the MOD isn't a charity, it's helicopters are ruinously expensive to own and operate, and if they are going to be be burning through flying and maintenance hours the MOD would like some compensation for such. The govt will therefore offer affected areas some contingency funding that will cover the additional expenses they are having to cough up.

Of course, the Government has doubtless already told local authorities that it will help with the bills, some frontbench goat will have a rant about money and some smooth chap from the Government will make him look silly by saying 'we've already discussed it, the money is available' - Burnham gets the money, and the Tories, and Burnham (no fan of Corbyn or his goats) get to smile at Corbyns fox being rather publicly shot...

I agree. The mayor seems to be doing a good job of trying to manage the fallout from this situation, as have the other authorities like GMFRS of course. There will be ongoing discussions between the mayor's office and various government departments, all in the background.
 
You're guessing, whereas The39thStep seems to have made a very direct factual claim that, 'It's finally going to be raised in Parliament', I am interested in knowing where this come from, considering I am following the story very closely*, and not seen this mentioned.

I did see Burnham interviewed earlier* saying he was going to contact the Home Sec, and thought, what a self serving publicly seeking twat, considering he clearly hasn't been that bothered up to this point in time, otherwise he would have pulled his finger out of his arse earlier.

* this being in the national media coverage, that The39thStep's seems to think isn't happening, and as The39thStep is making such false claims over that, I am assuming this latest claim is also false, but would be happy to be proved wrong.
Happiness is a much sought after thing so I am delighted to give you what you crave for :
When fire on Saddleworth Moor finally goes out residents could face flooding
 
It was pretty smoky round Parbold Hill at the weekend

41349455880_1dfaccda7a_z.jpg
 
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Happiness is a much sought after thing so I am delighted to give you what you crave for :
When fire on Saddleworth Moor finally goes out residents could face flooding

Thanks for that, and about time too. Personally I don't see nearly enough support for the fire services here, and the only people that can be blamed for that are the politicians at all levels. Seeing Burnham interviewed saying he was going to talk to the Home Secretary seemed arse about face, talk to him first, tell him what's required, then do an interview explaining what additional support has been agreed, and the timescale on the delivery of it. When the first call for help went out, the army was there within 24-48 hours, but that was 5 or 6 days ago, and things have got worst, with reports this morning saying fire fighters & troops are still being pushed to their limits.

It's all very well saying whatever support that is required will be provided, and paid for at national level, but why has so little been provided? Why have no extra troops been provided in the last 5 days? I struggle with the idea that Manchester and Lancashire Fire Services are happy with the support they have so far, when fire fighters are having to work long hellish shifts, reports mentioning shifts of between 12 & 22 hours!

Manchester Fire Chiefs, in particular, seem to be struggling with logistics, they don't even seem capable of providing basics like food & drinking water for the fire fighters (see link below), they clearly need more military support to get on top of the situation. It makes my blood boil that the limited numbers on the ground are being put under so much pressure, resources should be flowing into the area - FFS it's two major incidents, yet no one seems to have a grip on it.

Watching reports on the Winter Hill fire yesterday, and hearing things like fire-fighters having to walk 20 to 30 minutes to get to the fire. Why hasn't specialist vehicles and/or more helicopters been provided to get them that last mile or so? Discussions about moving the military support from Saddlemoor to Winter Hill, despite them still being needed at Saddlemmor. Why hasn't more military support not been provided? Why haven't more portable pumps been brought in? FFS, when I lived in Somerset, I regularly witnessed portable pumps with miles of piping being brought in to assist the static pumping stations during heavy flooding. Looking at google maps, there seems plenty of lakes within a mile or so of the fires, so why aren't these pumps being moved up there?

The answer to all of these things seem a lack of co-ordination & logistics, something the military are experts at, they need to take over all control, sourcing equipment from across the country, or even bringing it in from other countries* if required, and moving it to where it's required. *This happened one year in Somerset, when flooding was so bad, additional portable pumps were brought in from Holland.

Firefighters are being "pushed to their limits" with some working 17-hour shifts without a break to tackle moorland fires, claim union leaders

A whistleblower said he was "furious" as bosses have made "basic errors" and provided "absolutely nothing" leaving them reliant on donations for supplies. GMFRS said it was "doing its best".

The whistleblower, who has been tackling the blaze near Saddleworth Moor and who does not want to be named, claims his managers were guilty of "basic errors of judgement".

"The management is seriously lacking" with bosses "burying their heads in the sand", he said.

Worth reading the whole report - Moor wildfire crews 'pushed to limits' - this is totally fucking unacceptable.

I am sure the managers are doing their best, but sadly that's clearly not good enough, they need expert military logistic support to assist those on the ground at present, and get on top of this environmental disaster.

/rant over. :mad:
 
Allegedly there are/were fires on the Malvern Hills according to the Worcester News:

Day 2: Firefighters continue to battle Malvern Hills fire with cause still unknown | Worcester News

However, I couldn't see any evidence last night (i.e. smoke) and I took this photo this morning walking Lily:

View attachment 139778
I saw the smoke plume driving home from Hereford on the Ledbury road... it was the other side of the hills and near the British camp end...

By this morning they had put it out...
 
The Military got out of the 1st call for emergency help for councils about a decade ago.
An It really doesn't have the manpower or kit anymore
B its really really expensive
C It forced councils to actually come up with workable emergency response plans most of them are miles better than get some squaddies to do something.

the Chinook is probably the only one that could be spared uk's only got 60
 
I saw the smoke plume driving home from Hereford on the Ledbury road... it was the other side of the hills and near the British camp end...

By this morning they had put it out...

local radio are/were claiming that Trumpton found a disposable BBQ at the site - and they found one at the site of the Hartlebury common fire: some fucknugget had left the bbq on a wooden bench, the wind blew it over and the embers went nuts...
 
The Military got out of the 1st call for emergency help for councils about a decade ago.
An It really doesn't have the manpower or kit anymore
B its really really expensive
C It forced councils to actually come up with workable emergency response plans most of them are miles better than get some squaddies to do something.

the Chinook is probably the only one that could be spared uk's only got 60

Yes, read some MOD paper online stating very clearly that most County Council's have more earth moving equipment etc than the Army in total. It is up to Council's to set up arrangements with one another to assist, (as happened with foot and mouth).
 
Doesn't help the Treasury charges the MoD for any stores it keeps just in case so no more emergency tentage the last lot went to Pakistan and hasn't been replaced:facepalm:
 
local radio are/were claiming that Trumpton found a disposable BBQ at the site - and they found one at the site of the Hartlebury common fire: some fucknugget had left the bbq on a wooden bench, the wind blew it over and the embers went nuts...
Trouble with malvern in the fine weather is that its hard to tell whether it's one of our very own fuckwits or a visiting tourist that does this stuff :D
 
I walk on the hills most days - anywhere between British Camp and the Tank Clock - and I have to say it's pretty rare to find a spent disposable barbecue.

When I do find them they've almost all been on the flat bit adjacent to the St. Anne's Well cafe.
 
Some months ago we were coming over the back road to Whinlatter Pass in the Lake District.

Stopped to admire the view, when I realised I could smell smoke. Drove up into the trees to the next car park and narrowly avoided a collision with a couple of fully laden boy racers exiting rapidly, the third car load were coming away from a camp fire, and drove off in a similar dangerous manner.

The "camp fire" was several pre-packed BBQs and local windfall wood, the stone ring was incomplete and everything was bone dry. The embers were still very hot, even some flames. Plenty of bottles, cans and other rubbish lying about.
We did our best to stamp it out whilst our driver headed down to find the rangers ... they attended and thanked us for our vigilance, hopefully the fuck-nuggets went out via one of the camera traps / traffic census points.
 
Sky lantern release planned
Sign the Petition

You'd hope the organisers would cancel it even if there aren't wildfires burning for basically being a fucking stupid idea to release little bundles of fire into the sky. But it would be brain-dead to refuse to cancel it in light of the wildfires. I hope the fire service is having a quiet word with them in the background.
 
This was on East Midlands news tonight with National Park and Fire Service stating it should be cancelled. Only statement from the organisers was that they were holding the event away from housing and had teams ready to clear up the rubbish. I don't think that they grasp the concept of a grass fire.
 
This was on East Midlands news tonight with National Park and Fire Service stating it should be cancelled. Only statement from the organisers was that they were holding the event away from housing and had teams ready to clear up the rubbish. I don't think that they grasp the concept of a grass fire.

The authorities should publicly warn the organisers that if a wildfire results, they will bill them for every penny it costs to sort out. The selfish twats deserve no less.
 
At last some good news, they're confident that the Winter Hill fire is now under control, and some Manchester fire crews are moving from there to Saddleworth Moor, to replace the troops, which are being stood down.

Soldiers stood down from moorland fire
Crews confident that Winter Hill moor fire is under control

As long as no idiots start more fires, the worst could be over.
I hope this is right. Wildfires are very frightening.

As for those claiming the media haven't been covering it, I only arrived in the UK on Thursday and I'd seen it on BBC and read about it in the Guardian. It's being well covered.
 
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