Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[cupid_stunt]

I think it's useful tbh. We get to see what it's really like out there

You can do that on twitter, this is supposed to be a safe place away from loons and scum like him.

This is a proper online community, and he brings nothing worthwhile to this community.

 

[8ball]

Is it homophobic to accuse people of being involved with unicorns? Genuinely had no idea. I thought they were mainly invoked in the context of tech start-ups.

Maybe it’s because they fart rainbows.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

lol, in comes the woke brigade on their retard unicorns

what

Sorry, I mean "banned from the thread, have a week ban on top"

 

[Wilf]

Of course paul knows the going rate for “outcall sex” (whatever the fuck that is). Of course he does.

I suspect Paul has a very clear sense of the various rates - from his credit card bill.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

There are some weird hills to die on being picked on this thread

 

[cupid_stunt]

what

Sorry, I mean "banned from the thread, have a week ban on top"

Clearly you are in a generous mood tonight.

 

[JimW]

Reminds me, about time I re-tarred my unicorn, leaked quite badly last time I rode her into the lists at the fuckwit tourney.

 

[Rob Ray]

I do enjoy how these things always start with "I'm the voice of common sense I am" and end with yelling about wokeness with nary a coherent argument to be found.

 

[hitmouse]

Really not the most important issue here, but I am still struggling to work out what the fuck mckenna thinks an oxford comma is.

 

[agricola]

There’s some more context here where it does not seem in dispute what the individual was hired for:

A Masseuse Accused Russell Brand of Physical Assault in 2014

A judge sided with Brand and his girlfriend at the time, Jemima Khan, over the masseuse, who alleged that Brand had pushed her.

www.rollingstone.com

Not to quibble but there is a bit of a gap between "what the individual does" and "what the individual was hired (by Khan and Brand) for". I think its significant that none of the reports from the time, when presumably whatever internet advertising was still around for lazy hacks to read, describe her as anything other than someone who offered massages - nor do the accounts of the subsequent legal process.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I suspect Paul has a very clear sense of the various rates - from his credit card bill.

Probably got good reasons for not wanting the police involved in things like that as well.

 

[8ball]

Not to quibble but there is a bit of a gap between "what the individual does" and "what the individual was hired (by Khan and Brand) for". I think its significant that none of the reports from the time, when presumably whatever internet advertising was still around for lazy hacks to read, describe her as anything other than someone who offered massages - nor do the accounts of the subsequent legal process.

That was my point, that this person was hired on the basis of providing a massage.

I don’t think the amount agreed necessarily means very much.

 

[Wilf]

Yes, a thread full of hillocks and pillocks.

 

[8ball]

Yes, a thread full of hillocks and pillocks.

And bollocks.

 

[8ball]

The post-coital silence is always a little awkward.

 

[existentialist]

The increased sex drive, the pressure of speech, the promiscuity, being attracted to conspiracies, the lack of boundaries, and arguably a bit of a god complex, plus losing his temper if he doesn't get his own way ..

I won't go on, but it makes some sense to me.

Doesn't excuse his behaviour, but might partly explain it.

It is just too damn easy to start chucking around labels like "bipolar", especially when there's a motive for doing so. I get pretty pissed off with the tendency of actual conditions to become commoditised, so that anyone who has a mood swing is suddenly "bipolar".

So I'm very happy to discount Brand's excuses (or those being made for him) until such time as someone competent is doing the diagnosing.

Not only that, but there are comparatively few psychological conditions which completely remove one's ability to stay in executive control, and - even if it turns out he has the condition - responsibility for his behaviour still rests with him.

 

[LDC]

I do enjoy how these things always start with "I'm the voice of common sense I am" and end with yelling about wokeness with nary a coherent argument to be found.

I'm amazing isn't it? It's always a variation on, 'Well I'm just very reasonably pointing this out" to, "Fucking woke unicorn scum!' in half a dozen posts or something. And completely lacking any self awareness about how boringly predictable (and horrible) it is for everyone else.

 

[story]

That was my point, that this person was hired on the basis of providing a massage.

I don’t think the amount agreed necessarily means very much.

Regardless of whether or not the massage therapist was in fact a massage therapist became the lesser issue once Paul McKenna went off to Yeah-but-Land. The idea of a sex worker being less assault-able needed to be challenged . And apparently explained in very basic terms.

 

[agricola]

That was my point, that this person was hired on the basis of providing a massage.

I don’t think the amount agreed necessarily means very much.

Sorry - what I was trying to say is that what she was intending to do there may not have been what Khan or Brand intended would happen when they booked her.

 

[cesare]

Sorry - what I was trying to say is that what she was intending to do there may not have been what Khan or Brand intended would happen when they booked her.

You mean, like an assumption on the part of Khan/Brand of a happy ending (or suchlike)? Or have I misunderstood?

 

[story]

It is just too damn easy to start chucking around labels like "bipolar", especially when there's a motive for doing so. I get pretty pissed off with the tendency of actual conditions to become commoditised, so that anyone who has a mood swing is suddenly "bipolar".

So I'm very happy to discount Brand's excuses (or those being made for him) until such time as someone competent is doing the diagnosing.

Not only that, but there are comparatively few psychological conditions which completely remove one's ability to stay in executive control, and - even if it turns out he has the condition - responsibility for his behaviour still rests with him.

That’s all true, of course.

But weltweit did say very specifically that he wasn’t suggesting it was an excuse.

In my experience of bipolar, you can indeed function and be regarded as “normal” while flying peculiar ideas and extreme behaviour on a large flagpole. I successfully compartmentalised my life so that no one saw the entirety of the hyper manic behaviour. Most people thought I was an exhibitionist, having a great night, in a good mood, effusive, entertaining, high... And I chose social situations in which eccentricity and fabulous behaviour was not only accepted but celebrated.

And I confess that I have done and said things that now make me feel ashamed (albeit nothing close to sexual assault), things that felt absolutely great and terrific and perfectly justifiable at the time of doing.

If he was diagnosed early (I think someone said that?) and ended up in the entertainment industry early, he likely didn’t have normal parameters in place. He was lauded and celebrated and applauded for his outré behaviour. Even rewarded for it with laughter, fame etc.

Grandiose thinking, magical thinking, hyper sexuality + fame, entitlement, lack of constraints…. It must have been a heady brew for someone with very addictive proclivities.
I don’t think this mitigates his behaviour at all. But if we’re asking “how does this happen?” perhaps part of the reason is RB’s personal life context, including poorly managed bipolar. Only he can know of course, and only with introspection and responsibility etc. which may be beyond him. Hopefully he doesn’t just turn it into the excuse. That would be shit.

 

[agricola]

You mean, like an assumption on the part of Khan/Brand of a happy ending (or suchlike)? Or have I misunderstood?

At least in terms of him/them expecting something more than was advertised, yes.

I am not sure that story as reported makes any sense otherwise (admittedly there only very scanty reports and none looking at what actually happened that are in the public domain).

 

[Rob Ray]

I don't think it's particularly conflicted to suggest that the norms of the entertainment industry can help enable and/or create monsters, or that a bipolar episode can enable difficult/dodgy behaviour, while also saying that we are responsible for our own actions at the end of the day. It's the same for a lot of walks of life, from drug addicts who maintain a moral bottom line vs those who make every else's lives a nightmare, to basically anyone who has enormous institutional power and whether/how far they abuse it. It's certainly easier to be a saint when no temptations or opportunities or confusions are presented, but every choice is a choice.

 

[Dystopiary]

Regardless of whether or not the massage therapist was in fact a massage therapist became the lesser issue once Paul McKenna went off to Yeah-but-Land. The idea of a sex worker being less assault-able needed to be challenged . And apparently explained in very basic terms.

Sadly I think there's every chance people like him wouldn't care no matter how many ways it was explained. I think upsetting women is the point, same with using ablist slurs no matter how many times he's challenged, he enjoys othering people. I agree though, it still needs to be challenged though for one, to show it won't be tolerated plus in case any random reading is genuinely ignorant about that. So many people still are. Thank God for (most of) Urban. Can't look at social media rn.

 

[story]

Sadly I think there's every chance people like him wouldn't care no matter how many ways it was explained. I think upsetting women is the point, same with using ablist slurs no matter how many times he's challenged, he enjoys othering people. I agree though, it still needs to be challenged though for one, to show it won't be tolerated plus in case any random reading is genuinely ignorant about that. So many people still are. Thank God for (most of) Urban. Can't look at social media rn.

You’re probably right. Another way to bully and overpower. Not be deed but by word.

 

[CNT36]

Larry King hair cut charges:

Ladies Cut & Blow Dry	£510
Gents Cut & Blow Dry	£310

And for that you have to go to him. So yes, a “standard massage” could easily cost a celebrity £500.

So that line of “logic” is dealt with. But this shit about whether it’s possible to sexually assault sex workers is really depressing, to be quite frank. I’m sorry I saw it.

There's probably an element of conspicuous consumption among friends as well as an assurance inconspicuous consumption yo pay for. Tell your mates you paid big bucks for a service while making sure the masseuse has a financial incentive not to sell a story to the papers.

 

[8ball]

There's probably an element of conspicuous consumption among friends as well as an assurance inconspicuous consumption yo pay for. Tell your mates you paid big bucks for a service while making sure the masseuse has a financial incentive not to sell a story to the papers.

On the latter part, I wonder whether there are any NDA’s etc. involved when visiting the homes of celebrities..

 

[BigMoaner]

You can do that on twitter, this is supposed to be a safe place away from loons and scum like him.

This is a proper online community, and he brings nothing worthwhile to this community.

can't like this post enough. I've been around right wingers all my life in various forms. I can handle that. But I've given up on the wilds of the internet. Triggered? Probably. But what the hell is the point in spending much time at all being triggered? Let alone day after day? We know what they are going to say before they say it ( like them with us) so what's the point?

 

[PTK]

You can do that on twitter, this is supposed to be a safe place away from loons and scum like him.

This is a proper online community, and he brings nothing worthwhile to this community.

Yes

 

[editor]

At least in terms of him/them expecting something more than was advertised, yes.

I am not sure that story as reported makes any sense otherwise (admittedly there only very scanty reports and none looking at what actually happened that are in the public domain).

There's not a lot of info u there because Brand took out a High Court Order in 2014.

Russell Brand was protected by a High Court order from a senior judge after he was accused of assaulting a woman hired to give him a birthday massage.

Masseuse Szilvia Berki was paid £500 in June 2014 by Brand’s then-girlfriend Jemima Khan to give the comedian a massage at the heiress’ Oxfordshire mansion.

Ms Berki complained in the aftermath of the encounter that she had been pushed by Brand, and made a complaint to police.

When Thames Valley Police decided to drop the investigation, the masseuse contacted newspapers, posted allegations online, and attempted to raise her complaints with an MP and the Prime Minister, leading to a showdown in the High Court.

Brand and Ms Khan denied all the allegations made against them by Ms Berki.

Russell Brand protected by High Court order after accusations from masseuse in 2014

Russell Brand was protected by a High Court order from a senior judge after he was accused of assaulting a woman hired to give him a birthday massage.

www.standard.co.uk