Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
tbh i don't think you've as much to add to this discussion as you think you do. you're dancing round the origin of these ideas being interpretations of the koran but you're not ready to dive in and defend that.
Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims
- Thread starter Ole
- Start date
likesfish
You can't park here sir
No body is surprised that some Pakistani men have a terrible attitude to women give them opportunity and they are going to abuse “slags”.
The fact the authorities let them get away with it for so long is unforgivable.
People trying to claim there wasn’t anything racial about this is bullshit.
The fact the authorities let them get away with it for so long is unforgivable.
People trying to claim there wasn’t anything racial about this is bullshit.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
the sexual slavery issue was more to do with ISIS & the atrocities being carried in their wake I thought
September 12, 2014
Clip No.
5252
Al-Azhar Professor Suad Saleh: In a Legitimate War, Muslims Can Capture Slavegirls and Have Sex with Them (Archival)
In a September 12, 2014 Fatwa show, Al-Azhar Professor of Theology Suad Saleh discussed the Islamic concept of "those whom you own." Speaking on Hayat TV, Professor Saleh said that Muslims who capture women in a legitimate war against their enemies may own them and have sex with them as slavegirls. "In order to humiliate them," Prof. Saleh said, "they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives." The video has been circulating in social media in recent days.
Suad Saleh: "'Those whom you own' (slavery) existed before Islam. It existed among all nations and countries, not just among pre-Islam Arabs. Anyone could trade in freeborn men and women. This is called the selling of freeborn people. It's like the selling of human organs and trafficking in freeborn humans today. But when Islam emerged, it put (slavery) into order, by limiting it to legitimate wars between Muslims and their enemies. If we fought Israel, which is plundering land, and is an aggressor against people and their faith... Obviously, it is impossible that we will fight Israel, even though Surat Al-Isra in the Quran foretells this, and nothing is beyond the power of Allah... The female prisoners of wars are 'those whom you own.' In order to humiliate them, they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives.
[...]
"Some opportunists and extremists, who only harm Islam, say: 'I will bring a woman from East Asia, as (a slavegirl) under the status of "those whom you own," and with the consent of my wife, I will allocate this woman a room in the house, and will have sex with her as a slavegirl.' This is nonsense. This is not prescribed by Islam at all. Islam says that a woman is either a wife or a slavegirl. Legitimately-owned slaves come from among prisoners from a war, which is waged against the Muslims, a war to plunder land, a war against our faith, and so on. What some people are doing now is an aggression against Allah and against Allah's legal texts in the Quran, and we must not be influenced by this at all."
Al-Azhar Professor Suad Saleh: In a Legitimate War, Muslims Can Capture Slavegirls and Have Sex with Them (Archival)
September 12, 2014
Clip No.
5252
Al-Azhar Professor Suad Saleh: In a Legitimate War, Muslims Can Capture Slavegirls and Have Sex with Them (Archival)
In a September 12, 2014 Fatwa show, Al-Azhar Professor of Theology Suad Saleh discussed the Islamic concept of "those whom you own." Speaking on Hayat TV, Professor Saleh said that Muslims who capture women in a legitimate war against their enemies may own them and have sex with them as slavegirls. "In order to humiliate them," Prof. Saleh said, "they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives." The video has been circulating in social media in recent days.
Suad Saleh: "'Those whom you own' (slavery) existed before Islam. It existed among all nations and countries, not just among pre-Islam Arabs. Anyone could trade in freeborn men and women. This is called the selling of freeborn people. It's like the selling of human organs and trafficking in freeborn humans today. But when Islam emerged, it put (slavery) into order, by limiting it to legitimate wars between Muslims and their enemies. If we fought Israel, which is plundering land, and is an aggressor against people and their faith... Obviously, it is impossible that we will fight Israel, even though Surat Al-Isra in the Quran foretells this, and nothing is beyond the power of Allah... The female prisoners of wars are 'those whom you own.' In order to humiliate them, they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives.
[...]
"Some opportunists and extremists, who only harm Islam, say: 'I will bring a woman from East Asia, as (a slavegirl) under the status of "those whom you own," and with the consent of my wife, I will allocate this woman a room in the house, and will have sex with her as a slavegirl.' This is nonsense. This is not prescribed by Islam at all. Islam says that a woman is either a wife or a slavegirl. Legitimately-owned slaves come from among prisoners from a war, which is waged against the Muslims, a war to plunder land, a war against our faith, and so on. What some people are doing now is an aggression against Allah and against Allah's legal texts in the Quran, and we must not be influenced by this at all."
Al-Azhar Professor Suad Saleh: In a Legitimate War, Muslims Can Capture Slavegirls and Have Sex with Them (Archival)
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
You're talking utter rubbish. Where have I said any such thing?
Why don't you give your opinion, instead of ascribing opinions to other people?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
'where have i said such a thing?' you know that bit where you were on about jaded interpretations of islam? what do you think muslims interpret for their understanding of islam, jaded or otherwise? eh?
i am saying what i think. which is that what you and pk think is tosh.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
In what is a pretty radgie thread, I don't think using the word 'race' does anything to help.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Okay, so you think it's tosh that the grooming gangs' attitude towards white girls is a mix of culture and a jaded interpretation of islam.
How would you explain it?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh, your orientalism is showing chuck.
how'd i explain it? by a mixture of opportunity, misogyny and sexism, power and racism; not to mention misogyny on the part of bodies like the police. there's no need to bring islam into it, as it only muddies the waters.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That begs some questions rather. Where does the misogyny and sexism come from?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Certainly not from one particular culture, nation or religion.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
True but its is more prevalent in some cultures, nations and religions.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
But if the group of men come from one particular culture, their attitudes are likely to be informed by it, no? Similarly, the rapey rockstars of the 70s had attitudes informed by the rapey rockstar culture of the time.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
What do you mean by “racism”?
Which party is being racist to whom?
Let’s stop the ad hominems towards ElizabethofYork who has only politely enquired of you your own opinions, which you have thus far evaded...
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
A small group of coke-addled rockstars are not a culture on the same level as a nation and diaspora comprising hundreds of millions of people.
If people only do what their culture tells them, why are most people in any culture you care to name not rapists and paedophiles?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
More “whataboutery” - the kind of which one would expect from Britain First.
Why were only white non-muslim girls specifically targetted by these grooming gangs of Pakistani heritage?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you used to be halfway decent at this. but now you're shit. lbj asked where this sexism and misogyny came from and my post indicated that it's all around us.
incidentally, it's not what you'd expect from bf, who would undoubtedly concentrate solely on the pakistani or wider muslim communities.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Where did I say 'people only do what their culture tells them'? Most 70s rockstars weren't rapists either.
People are able to talk on here about 90s 'lad culture' and its effects on the attitudes of young men towards women. Surely we can also talk about British Muslim culture and its effects.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I generally have better things to do than waste energy on elusive vague people too scared to state the bleedin’ obvious.
I definitely think the refusal to see this grooming scandal as something more sinister than common garden sexism/shit policing - and the unwillingness to confront the twisted religiously inspired elements of a known mysogynist society is what is driving lesser educated working class boys into the far right groups that will be headed to Birmingham on the 24th March.
And it’s a shame the left haven’t got their shit together and denounced the specifically “jihadi flavour” grooming activity of abusing vulnerable white working class children, in the same way they denounce the other religiously inspired dogma that leads to abuse i.e. nonce Catholic priests.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I know you think I’m here to stir up old shit, but I simply don’t care & don’t even remember what we used to argue about beyond the usual drunken bickering.
It used to be that people were concerned about factors that drove working class disenfranchised young people towards far right hate groups.
This here is currently the Number One factor, and the basis upon which the modern far right groups were established.
That you still fail to understand this is a huge failure on the part of the Left. And I find it frustrating and depressing.
It used to be that people were concerned about factors that drove working class disenfranchised young people towards far right hate groups.
This here is currently the Number One factor, and the basis upon which the modern far right groups were established.
That you still fail to understand this is a huge failure on the part of the Left. And I find it frustrating and depressing.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
That you refuse to see the blatant hatred and racist factors in the treatment of these child victims by the grooming gangs shows either a complete ignorance of the issue or a wilful disregard.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I suggest you start here, with an account from one of the abused children:
As a Rotherham grooming gang survivor, I want people to know about the religious extremism which inspired my abusers
As a Rotherham grooming gang survivor, I want people to know about the religious extremism which inspired my abusers
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
“
Religious indoctrination is a big part of the process of getting young men involved in grooming gang crime. Religious ideas about purity, virginity, modesty and obedience are taken to the extreme until horrific abuse becomes the norm. It was taught to me as a concept of “othering”.
“Muslim girls are good and pure because they dress modestly, covering down to their ankles and wrists, and covering their crotch area. They stay virgins until marriage. They are our girls.
"White girls and non-Muslim girls are bad because you dress like slags. You show the curves of your bodies (showing the gap between your thighs means you’re asking for it) and therefore you’re immoral. White girls sleep with hundreds of men. You are the other girls. You are worthless and you deserve to be gang-raped.”
Religious indoctrination is a big part of the process of getting young men involved in grooming gang crime. Religious ideas about purity, virginity, modesty and obedience are taken to the extreme until horrific abuse becomes the norm. It was taught to me as a concept of “othering”.
“Muslim girls are good and pure because they dress modestly, covering down to their ankles and wrists, and covering their crotch area. They stay virgins until marriage. They are our girls.
"White girls and non-Muslim girls are bad because you dress like slags. You show the curves of your bodies (showing the gap between your thighs means you’re asking for it) and therefore you’re immoral. White girls sleep with hundreds of men. You are the other girls. You are worthless and you deserve to be gang-raped.”
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Because I see the right’s analysis is working on susceptible young people with little by way of life opportunities. Even if flawed and designed to line the pockets of scum like Golding and Fransen.
The left has no narrative to yet address this and diffuse it. Which should sufficiently explain my frustration. I’m not sympathising with any far right animals as well you know.
I want to starve their arguments and reasoning of oxygen. But this does involve reading and understanding some uncomfortable aspects to the cases they are using to bolst their numbers. Which you apparently refuse to do.
Which then leads to nonsense about “safe spaces” and “snowflakes”.
You aren’t stupid, you can see this correlation.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
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