Rochdale by-election

[Wilf]

Might be because of where he and his office get funding. Trevor Chin lobbyist for israel.

Ah!

 

[PR1Berske]

“I said, ‘George, I love you and I love everything that you are doing, not only for the Asian community, the Muslim community, but this massive support that you give to the Palestinian people.’ I had my arm around his shoulders. He lent over and kissed me on the neck and said, ‘I love you too.’”

Source; ‘George Galloway gave me a kiss’: Rochdale in flux after Labour decision

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Well, there isn't one really. Galloway winning would be a multi spectrum horror, certainly, but just about the only ant-genocide vote.

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from thinking Galloway's posturing and self interest is a good form of politics or even way of pursuing the Palestinian cause. It's just that Labour have fucked this up so much that he's the least worst option. In other words, that's how much of a fuck up Labour have created.

Not the only one:

"What is happening in Gaza is genocide and I call for an immediate ceasefire." - The Reverend Mark Coleman - Independent

Twice jailed Just Stop Oil supporter Mark Coleman to stand in parliamentary by-election​

Twice jailed Just Stop Oil supporter Mark Coleman to stand in parliamentary by-election

Reverend Mark Coleman - a long-time climate campaigner and Just Stop Oil supporter who has twice been jailed for taking...

www.rochdaleonline.co.uk

 

[Wilf]

Not the only one:

"What is happening in Gaza is genocide and I call for an immediate ceasefire." - The Reverend Mark Coleman - Independent

Twice jailed Just Stop Oil supporter Mark Coleman to stand in parliamentary by-election​

Twice jailed Just Stop Oil supporter Mark Coleman to stand in parliamentary by-election

Reverend Mark Coleman - a long-time climate campaigner and Just Stop Oil supporter who has twice been jailed for taking...

www.rochdaleonline.co.uk

Oh yes, though I meant which candidate with a chance of winning. I do think it's a measure of how fucked up Labour are that they've made a vote for Galloway a real possibility, certainly for anyone angry about Palestine. Same time, if I had a vote there I doubt I could actually bring myself to vote for him. If I voted at all it would probably be for ^.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Some Labour voters will switch to LD, some loons will switch to Danczuk, the small section of the electorate which believes that middle eastern politics is key to the future of Rochdale is split anyway between Galloway and Ali, a majority of voters in a safe Labour seat in a low-turnout election will go for the bloke with the Labour logo next to his name on the ballot paper, which is Ali. Galloway has zero chance and Ali will sit for a few months then be replaced come the general election.

It’s a storm in a teacup.

The risk is that those who would otherwise have voted Labour stay at home and the Conservatives or Galloway sneak in. For too long, Labour has taken votes for granted and one day they'll get their comeuppance. You can't continue treating the electorate with contempt and expect them to continue voting for you. True, they might not be able to bring themselves to vote for another candidate or party, but staying at home and not voting at all could cause just as much damage if enough people do it, ie stay home.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Why do you put it like that? Anyone voting on Palestine is clearly not voting that way because they think it has a direct bearing on Rochdale itself, they are voting that way because of their beliefs and/or heritage.

By beliefs, do you mean religious beliefs? Because it's not just Muslims and or people of Palestinian or Middle Easter or wider Muslim community who are appalled by events in Gaza and who's voting behaviour might be swayed by it. Many people are viewing it as a humanitarian catastrophe and massacres, perhaps through a similar lens as they consider events in Ukraine. And perhaps they're wanting politicians to call for a ceasefire instead of pussyfooting around the issue.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Probably the most accurate prediction so far, it will be awesome if barely anyone votes and Ravin Rodent Subortna romps home since let's face it how can you not love a name like that?

I'm another who thinks that the War in Gaza is not an issue that will have more than the most minimal effect on any election in this country. However assuming for the sake of argument it does why would anyone vote for Galloway as a result of that?
Setting aside the fact that the man is a self-serving grifter who cares only because he thinks it will win him votes, him winning won't change anything in the slightest, it won't make Sunak or even Starmer change their stance let alone Biden or Netanyahu.
Even if Galloway genuinely tried and failed to do something (a big IF with him) he will certainly be swept away by another Labour candidate whenever Sevenbins accepts the fact he's screwed and calls a GE.
It's not impossible if there is a low turnout that Galloway does win because he is a known name and the good people of Rochdale are rightfully pissed at being treated like idiot. But me I reckon Ali will win and might even be allowed back in the Labour Party if he does well enough. I don't think most people care about anti-semitism either and believe it was the excuse rather than the real reason for chucking out Corbyn.

I don't think he'll be allowed back in. I do think people care about anti-semitism, as they rightly should. There are also people who care about Palestinian people and the de facto apartheid state of Israel. Not sure it was an excuse to get rid of Corbyn, I think it was a deciding factor, but someone who was so far on the left of the party (in relative terms, he's only left in comparison to the likes of Blair and Starmer, etc) was always going to struggle against the establishment.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Oh yes, though I meant which candidate with a chance of winning. I do think it's a measure of how fucked up Labour are that they've made a vote for Galloway a real possibility, certainly for anyone angry about Palestine. Same time, if I had a vote there I doubt I could actually bring myself to vote for him. If I voted at all it would probably be for ^.

Yeah, I suppose most people will vote for one of the main parties, or Danczuk as the former MP, or Galloway as a familiar name. They probably won't even have read any of the candidate's policy positions before deciding who to vote for.

 

[MickiQ]

Less of that dare to struggle dare to win recklessness about changing things Micki . People should just know their place, their role and their fate in life and just vote Labour.

What change positive or negative do you believe is likely to come from the outcome of the Rochdale by-election?

 

[Karl Masks]

Nope, it's someone reacting to a massacre. It's no different to someone saying 'fucking America' following American atrocities. Someone coming out with 'fucking Israel' might of course be antisemitic, those words aren't.

The clip seems to have been cut right before he says it, as if there was something right before it that might make it more palatable.

 

[brogdale]

Into the realms of pre-crime, now. My word the pro-israeli factions are going for it....

 

[steeplejack]

Libertarian flat-earther and loathsome far right loonball Guido Fawkes now salivating at the propspect of a Reform win in Rochdale.

Doesn't seem very likely but clearly the Danczuk-Tice strategy will be to lie their way into a challenging position.

 

[danny la rouge]

Into the realms of pre-crime, now. My word the pro-israeli factions are going for it....

View attachment 412109

What about people who read about it? Are we going to give them a pass?

 

[The39thStep]

What change positive or negative do you believe is likely to come from the outcome of the Rochdale by-election?

That a substantial section of voters who have been treated as ballot fodder by Labour reject the party view that genocide is self defence.

 

[danny la rouge]

View attachment 412046

Back in the 90s, I lived in the next door constituency to where I live now, and Galloway was my (then Labour) MP. He was a prick then and the years haven’t been kind to him. Much as I find the mess Starmer is in amusing, I don’t think Galloway profiting from it a good thing. He’s a total scumbag.

 

[prunus]

Libertarian flat-earther and loathsome far right loonball Guido Fawkes now salivating at the propspect of a Reform win in Rochdale.

Doesn't seem very likely but clearly the Danczuk-Tice strategy will be to lie their way into a challenging position.

It’s possible that, loathsome that Reform are too, a win for them here could have a silver lining - if it gives momentum to Reform they could decimate the Tory vote in a GE and lead to them being wiped out.

 

[MickiQ]

That a substantial section of voters who have been treated as ballot fodder by Labour reject the party view that genocide is self defence.

Yeah wouldn't argue with you there so what change are you expecting? There will be no change in Labour's policy regardless of whether Ali or Galloway win and of course currently at this point Labour are in Opposition not Government so they don't set foreign policy anyway. Again if Gaza is a significant issue for voters (Muslim or otherwise) why not vote for Ali and let him sit as an Independent? This whole fuss was initiated by him not toeing the party line over Israel.

 

[kenny g]

The labour fellow on the today programme this morning had himself tied in knots trying to justify the decisive action taken with regards to AA when the first reports came in. The initial failure to suspend him apparently being due to his immediate apology rather than the fact he was clearly their kind of alleged antisemite.

 

[steeplejack]

Back in the 90s, I lived in the next door constituency to where I live now, and Galloway was my (then Labour) MP. He was a prick then and the years haven’t been kind to him. Much as I find the mess Starmer is in amusing, I don’t think Galloway profiting from it a good thing. He’s a total scumbag.

Couldn't agree more. A refresher on Galloway in this semi-dormant thread, events in Rochdale have moved so fast it's been overtaken.

I must admit whern these by-elections were being set up I thought Wellingborough would be far more entertaining, with it's odd assortment of right wing lunatics, the girlfriend of the widely loathed bully and flasher Peter Booooooooooone standing for the Tories, a Britain First candidate that looks like an alien doing a screen test for an episode of Crossroads set in a faraway galaxy...but Wellingborough is super-boring compared to the entertainment being served up in Lancashire.

It tells us the state of representative democracy when the 22 candidates across the two seats are a weird gaggle of ultra-right morons living in their own reality, no hoper independents and smaller party candidates standing for no reason other than muscle memory.

 

[Sue]

Back in the 90s, I lived in the next door constituency to where I live now, and Galloway was my (then Labour) MP. He was a prick then and the years haven’t been kind to him. Much as I find the mess Starmer is in amusing, I don’t think Galloway profiting from it a good thing. He’s a total scumbag.

A friend was involved in some campaign or other with him way back in the day. I think he'd go stronger than 'total scumbag'.

 

[kebabking]

Back in the 90s, I lived in the next door constituency to where I live now, and Galloway was my (then Labour) MP. He was a prick then and the years haven’t been kind to him. Much as I find the mess Starmer is in amusing, I don’t think Galloway profiting from it a good thing. He’s a total scumbag.

He was my MP when I was at Uni - same time/place. I would only add preditory to your assessment...

 

[The39thStep]

Yeah wouldn't argue with you there so what change are you expecting? There will be no change in Labour's policy regardless of whether Ali or Galloway win and of course currently at this point Labour are in Opposition not Government so they don't set foreign policy anyway. Again if Gaza is a significant issue for voters (Muslim or otherwise) why not vote for Ali and let him sit as an Independent? This whole fuss was initiated by him not toeing the party line over Israel.

Ali has been firmly entrenched in the Labour machine for ages, he's loyal Labour and tainted with Labour. I think it's unlikely that many would see him as independent and he's not going to get a sympathy vote for Labour withdrawing support.

The fuss by the way that is leading a substantial part of Labour's support in Rochdale to vote against Labour is about genocide not Labour's selection process or him not toeing a line.

 

[PR1Berske]

Couldn't agree more. A refresher on Galloway in this semi-dormant thread, events in Rochdale have moved so fast it's been overtaken.

I must admit whern these by-elections were being set up I thought Wellingborough would be far more entertaining, with it's odd assortment of right wing lunatics, the girlfriend of the widely loathed bully and flasher Peter Booooooooooone standing for the Tories, a Britain First candidate that looks like an alien doing a screen test for an episode of Crossroads set in a faraway galaxy...but Wellingborough is super-boring compared to the entertainment being served up in Lancashire.

It tells us the state of representative democracy when the 22 candidates across the two seats are a weird gaggle of ultra-right morons living in their own reality, no hoper independents and smaller party candidates standing for no reason other than muscle memory.

That last paragraph is why I love byelections so much, I'm not sure you get this in many other political cultures. Look at the NY-3 special election yesterday, just two candidates, millions of dollars poured down the drain, all very safe and sound. Then come here with suspended candidates, the Raving Loonies, and Ankit Love.

 

[The39thStep]

Couldn't agree more. A refresher on Galloway in this semi-dormant thread, events in Rochdale have moved so fast it's been overtaken.

I must admit whern these by-elections were being set up I thought Wellingborough would be far more entertaining, with it's odd assortment of right wing lunatics, the girlfriend of the widely loathed bully and flasher Peter Booooooooooone standing for the Tories, a Britain First candidate that looks like an alien doing a screen test for an episode of Crossroads set in a faraway galaxy...but Wellingborough is super-boring compared to the entertainment being served up in Lancashire.

It tells us the state of representative democracy when the 22 candidates across the two seats are a weird gaggle of ultra-right morons living in their own reality, no hoper independents and smaller party candidates standing for no reason other than muscle memory.

Starmer is much more comfortable in Wellingborough. ( Gen Kitchen btw is short for Genevieve Kitchen not a range of hi-tec smart cooking and food storage appliances)

 

[brogdale]

What about people who read about it? Are we going to give them a pass?

A metric of where the LP is at present...after all, we've all heard what was said...

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

A metric of where the LP is at present...after all, we've all heard what was said...

View attachment 412124

I'm getting worried now. I've read about what was said at a meeting at which I wasn't present. Does that mean that I now have been present after all? And who should I report it to?

 

[brogdale]

Starmer has lost control of the pro-israeli forces he initially benefitted from to help defeat his (factional) enemies. They're rapidly becoming his very own Afghan Mujahideen!

 

[Wilf]

By beliefs, do you mean religious beliefs? Because it's not just Muslims and or people of Palestinian or Middle Easter or wider Muslim community who are appalled by events in Gaza and who's voting behaviour might be swayed by it. Many people are viewing it as a humanitarian catastrophe and massacres, perhaps through a similar lens as they consider events in Ukraine. And perhaps they're wanting politicians to call for a ceasefire instead of pussyfooting around the issue.

By beliefs, I was meaning social and political beliefs, and by heritage I was referring to ethnicity and religion. But in terms of the latter, as always, you can't read off someone's political beliefs from their ethnicity. I know Muslims in Rochdale who have gone on Palestine demos as much out of their politics as their religion.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Starmer has lost control of the pro-israeli forces he initially benefitted from to help defeat his (factional) enemies.

I'm not sure he ever had control to lose tbh. Thing is all the various pro-Israel groups he jumped gleefully into bed with were pretty open this was what they were preparing the ground for weren't they, it's not like anyone with any political understanding at all wouldn't have seen it coming.

 

[Sue]

I'm not sure he ever had control to lose tbh. Thing is all the various pro-Israel groups he jumped gleefully into bed with were pretty open this was what they were preparing the ground for weren't they, it's not like anyone with any political understanding at all wouldn't have seen it coming.

Aye well.