Rochdale by-election

[kenny g]

Starmer has lost control of the pro-israeli forces he initially benefitted from to help defeat his (factional) enemies. They're rapidly becoming his very own Afghan Mujahideen!

He should require all candidates to swear an article of faith in all present and future Israeli governments. That would settle matters once and for all.

 

[Wilf]

Into the realms of pre-crime, now. My word the pro-israeli factions are going for it....

View attachment 412109

Puts me in mind of the John Cooper Clarke line: 'Those who aren't hanging are hanging someone else'.

Then we've got John Healey saying “Hats off to the Daily Mail".

Oh. Fucking. My.

 

[Wilf]

A friend was involved in some campaign or other with him way back in the day. I think he'd go stronger than 'total scumbag'.

Aww, come on, The War on Want money was just resting in his account.

 

[Elpenor]

Starmer is much more comfortable in Wellingborough. ( Gen Kitchen btw is short for Genevieve Kitchen not a range of hi-tec smart cooking and food storage appliances)

View attachment 412122

That final paragraph on Gen Kitchen.

Every opportunity to underline how his Labour Party are listening to businesses. Any conversations with workers?

 

[DotCommunist]

Former london councillor, second reff enthusiast.

 

[The39thStep]

John Sweeney calling for a Lib Dem vote in Rochdale with a story that is bound to have an impact there

 

[Wilf]

I'm hardly going to blame Corbyn for this madness, but it does bring to the fore the failure of Momentum and the left to do anything with the structure of the party or develop deep roots in communities. Individual membership rose to something just short of 600,000 under Corbyn, but what happened to all of those (presumably) left minded members? A lot of them have just left, but there was a failure to build something that would survive or, particularly, something that would organise on the ground. A failure of political imagination and a failure of politics. And here we are. There's no organised voice in the party saying 'fuck, your policy on Palestine is hideous' to Starmer.

 

[marty21]

It’s possible that, loathsome that Reform are too, a win for them here could have a silver lining - if it gives momentum to Reform they could decimate the Tory vote in a GE and lead to them being wiped out.

Don't agree , its an unusual by-election given Labour's fuck up. And whomever wins , they are only an MP until the GE (even if the now ex-labour candidate wins ) It'll be far different in the GE. Part of me would find it hilarious if GG won , and is then turfed out in months, same with Reform.

 

[tim]

Libertarian flat-earther and loathsome far right loonball Guido Fawkes now salivating at the propspect of a Reform win in Rochdale.

Doesn't seem very likely but clearly the Danczuk-Tice strategy will be to lie their way into a challenging position.

You can't expect people who know you to believe your lies. In Rochdale they know that Danczuk groomed a seventeen year old girl.

 

[PTK]

I know nothing about what was said about anything at any meeting that may or not have taken place, and therefore I cannot be guilty of whatever it is that I may be charged with.

 

[steeplejack]

You can't expect people who know you to believe your lies. In Rochdale they know that Danczuk groomed a seventeen year old girl.

Yes, the story is wishful thinking, as I stated, but clearly wholescale deceit is the only possibility they have to try and pretend they're in with a chance. Danczuk will be in a poor position outside the top 3 I feel.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I know nothing about what was said about anything at any meeting that may or not have taken place, and therefore I cannot be guilty of whatever it is that I may be charged with.

In that case we'll just find you guilty without charging you.

 

[Wilf]

I've just read a description of 'the meeting':

The grassroots Labour meeting at centre of party turmoil

Gathering of councillors in north-west England has resulted in suspensions of candidates Azhar Ali and Graham Jones

www.theguardian.com

As discussed on here, Ali comes out with lines that can be interpreted as simply repeating stuff about warnings given to Israel, through to being seen as repeating conspiracy theories. However, there's the bit underlined below, which I hadn't seen before.

Party officials rushed to Ali’s defence, noting his good public record of being an ally to the Jewish community, having set up Labour groups such as Muslims Against Antisemitism, and his “swift and wholesome apology”

Even from a Starmerite fanatically pro-Israel position, a 'grown up politics' would say 'look, he's come out with this in the heat of the moment, but here's a bloke who has worked hard to develop relations between the Muslim and Jewish communities'. It's the hair trigger panic stations idiocy that has made this even worse for Labour. Because they wanted to use antisemitism to kill the left in the party - and have just about managed that - they are now unable to apply even the most basic common sense to situations. Labour and Starmer's approach to Palestine is fucking vile, but it's also politically incompetent. The tories and daily mail will be looking through the social media of just about every Labour candidate in the country - particularly those who are Asian and/or left wing - and screeching back at Labour: look, what about this one? And meanwhile, the Palestinians die.

 

[tommers]

I'm hardly going to blame Corbyn for this madness, but it does bring to the fore the failure of Momentum and the left to do anything with the structure of the party or develop deep roots in communities. Individual membership rose to something just short of 600,000 under Corbyn, but what happened to all of those (presumably) left minded members? A lot of them have just left, but there was a failure to build something that would survive or, particularly, something that would organise on the ground. A failure of political imagination and a failure of politics. And here we are. There's no organised voice in the party saying 'fuck, your policy on Palestine is hideous' to Starmer.

Because they've all been expelled?

 

[steeplejack]

I can see Labour just mass-expelling everyone who was there in a witchfinder-general type move.

 

[lazythursday]

Just one little thing. However much of a scumbag Galloway is, believe me, Danzcuk is worse.

I suspect as personalities they have quite a bit in common. But having taken great pleasure in Danczuk's demise, I really can't take his resurrection. I'd go and deliver leaflets for bloody George if I felt that was on the cards.

 

[Wilf]

I can see Labour just mass-expelling everyone who was there in a witchfinder-general type move.

A recent Labour NEC meeting:

 

[The39thStep]

I've just read a description of 'the meeting':

The grassroots Labour meeting at centre of party turmoil

Gathering of councillors in north-west England has resulted in suspensions of candidates Azhar Ali and Graham Jones

www.theguardian.com

As discussed on here, Ali comes out with lines that can be interpreted as simply repeating stuff about warnings given to Israel, through to being seen as repeating conspiracy theories. However, there's the bit underlined below, which I hadn't seen before.

Even from a Starmerite fanatically pro-Israel position, a 'grown up politics' would say 'look, he's come out with this in the heat of the moment, but here's a bloke who has worked hard to develop relations between the Muslim and Jewish communities'. It's the hair trigger panic stations idiocy that has made this even worse for Labour. Because they wanted to use antisemitism to kill the left in the party - and have just about managed that - they are now unable to apply even the most basic common sense to situations. Labour and Starmer's approach to Palestine is fucking vile, but it's also politically incompetent. The tories and daily mail will be looking through the social media of just about every Labour candidate in the country - particularly those who are Asian and/or left wing - and screeching back at Labour: look, what about this one? And meanwhile, the Palestinians die.

If you look at the scale of the revolt in the North West its quite plausible that both Ali and Jones ( neither on the left of the party and Jones in fact resigned from his previous shadow position over Corbyn) were there to try and quell/calm the revolt rather than inflame it. If so then they would have reported back at some stage to Labour North West who would in turn be reassuring Labour HQ that the tide had been, at least partially, stemmed.

Whilst the most fervent Starmerooids will say that there has been no alternative to the cull I suspect that there is going to be some unease in sections of the North West Labour Party if not some chaffing between them and London.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Even from a Starmerite fanatically pro-Israel position, a 'grown up politics' would say 'look, he's come out with this in the heat of the moment, but here's a bloke who has worked hard to develop relations between the Muslim and Jewish communities'. It's the hair trigger panic stations idiocy that has made this even worse for Labour. Because they wanted to use antisemitism to kill the left in the party - and have just about managed that - they are now unable to apply even the most basic common sense to situations. Labour and Starmer's approach to Palestine is fucking vile, but it's also politically incompetent. The tories and daily mail will be looking through the social media of just about every Labour candidate in the country - particularly those who are Asian and/or left wing - and screeching back at Labour: look, what about this one? And meanwhile, the Palestinians die.

Yes. This is precisely the trap that Starmer has fallen into with the suspension of Jones. Jones’ comments were clearly not anti-semitic - and unlike Ali were not based on conspiracy or tropes either -but -are very much the type of anti-Israel/anti war comments that many prospective labour candidates will be using to express their opposition to Starmer on Gaza but stopping short of actually resigning/leaving.

As you note we can now expect example after example of others in Labour saying similar and the Tories and the media demanding action by Starmer against them too. To be honest, part of me is delighted that Starmer now finds himself in the firing line over an issue that he weaponised for political reasons.

 

[Raheem]

Wonder if it was Jones that made the recording.

 

[Wilf]

'Hmm, could I be antisemitic as well?'

 

[Sasaferrato]

Former london councillor, second reff enthusiast.

I'll be voting for Labour anyway, but I'd vote for any party that offered a second EU referendum. (Well, almost any).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

'Hmm, could I be antisemitic as well?'

View attachment 412143

It does all have a Committee of Public Safety vibe to it, but with fewer guillotines.

 

[emanymton]

It does all have a Committee of Public Safety vibe to it, but with fewer guillotines.

Sadly.

 

[DotCommunist]

Robespierre was right. Starmer is the thermidorian reaction here

 

[Serge Forward]

Sadly.

Dunno about sadly. I find it funny as fuck watching the Labour Party massively shit the bed

The Starmer cunts deserve everything they get.

 

[Wilf]

And so it begins, a third man has been spoken to but not un-personed:

A third Labour politician has been spoken to during the party’s investigation into the meeting in Rochdale at which by-election candidate Azhar Ali was recorded making antisemitic remarks.

There is no suggestion that Hyndburn councillor Munsif Dad, who leads the local authority’s Labour group, made inappropriate comments at the meeting and no further action has been taken, it is understood.

However the Telegraph are on the case:

The Telegraph is now highlighting other comments about Israel made by Labour MPs over the last few years, including two shadow front-benchers, Thangham Debbonaire and Shabana Mahmood.

Ms Debbonaire is reported to have said in 2015 that selling arms to Israel was a “grave concern” and accused the Jewish state of violating international law, whilst Ms Mahmood, the shadow justice secretary, urged thousands of people to “boycott Israeli goods” and bombard their MPs at their constituency surgeries back in 2014.

Arms to Israel, 'grave concern'? Israel 'violating international law'? Hadn't realised how much of an antisemite I must be to think such things!

MSN

 

[PTK]

Dunno about sadly. I find it funny as fuck watching the Labour Party massively shit the bed

The Starmer cunts deserve everything they get.

You may think that, but I could not possibly comment.
Actually I can.

Hoist by your own petard comes to mind.

 

[emanymton]

Dunno about sadly. I find it funny as fuck watching the Labour Party massively shit the bed

The Starmer cunts deserve everything they get.

I meant sadly no guillotines.

 

[PR1Berske]

"Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory - a postmortem of Labour's 2024 election defeat"