Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Right now prisons are being used much the same way. In NY's main prison facility 40% of the inmates were considered mentally ill. That's many more than you'd expect by chance.
Racism Alive and Well in USA
- Thread starter Johnny Canuck3
- Start date
Right now prisons are being used much the same way. In NY's main prison facility 40% of the inmates were considered mentally ill. That's many more than you'd expect by chance.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Bad black person - you failed to confront racism in an manner acceptable to wells.
Actually he did confront racism in more general and far more substantive terms by his actions - by making it clear that for many this is a regular, even everyday occurrence - than by shouting back at her or whatever it is that wells would accept as acceptable behaviour. Not that he had to, the very idea that black people have a limited set of legitimate responses to racism that wells has divined them all for them is pretty fucking...well what's the word i'm looking for?
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
does it begin with r?
maomao
普費斯
Jesus your dense, I meant you standing your ground in this argument.
Then be clearer in what you say.
It's possible that she may have a genuine mental health disorder that she identifies as bipolar that is actually something else. It wouldn't surprise me if her knowledge of mental health were as lacking as her knowledge of race relations.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Why didn't you call the police when that feller swung a punch at you, after alleging you'd worried his dog? Did you think it would be a waste of police time, or that it was better sorted out between you and the other feller, or...? I'd suggest that if everyone called the cops whenever anything happened, we would need an awful lot more cops.
In the case of the original vid, it's not, I think, unreasonable to speculate that the black man was reluctant to call them (if indeed it even occurred to him), on the basis that they might well say "why are you wasting our time", or worse, take the woman's side and nick him. So he took another course of action, and one which was far more effective IMHO.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You focussing on peripheral issues that I haven't disputed: i haven't said it would be unreasonable for him to be reluctant.
But those are your choices: call the cops, walk away, or confront the situation. He did neither, instead he filmed an angry woman which only made her more angry. How was that effective? Effective in what positive outcome? Ok he's got revenge on her for being nasty, great; that's not justice. Being the victim of nasty behaviour like that doesn't excuse whatever course of action he might choose from being a poor choice.
Why didn't I call the police? I don't carry a phone. I don't know the guy who certainl wouldn't stick around to identify himself, and the situation was sufficiently different so that it would not have achieved anything.
I have conceded several times that it's likely - certainly possible - the cops would not have helped him. But we don't know that for certain. I've also said that, if they behabved poorly, not only does he have evidence of her behaviour, he can record theirs. He doesn't strike me as the sort that would shy away from doing so. In fact that might well have been a more productive outcome: exposing not just one random racist, which is ultimately meaningless, but institutional racism in the local PD>
But those are your choices: call the cops, walk away, or confront the situation. He did neither, instead he filmed an angry woman which only made her more angry. How was that effective? Effective in what positive outcome? Ok he's got revenge on her for being nasty, great; that's not justice. Being the victim of nasty behaviour like that doesn't excuse whatever course of action he might choose from being a poor choice.
Why didn't I call the police? I don't carry a phone. I don't know the guy who certainl wouldn't stick around to identify himself, and the situation was sufficiently different so that it would not have achieved anything.
I have conceded several times that it's likely - certainly possible - the cops would not have helped him. But we don't know that for certain. I've also said that, if they behabved poorly, not only does he have evidence of her behaviour, he can record theirs. He doesn't strike me as the sort that would shy away from doing so. In fact that might well have been a more productive outcome: exposing not just one random racist, which is ultimately meaningless, but institutional racism in the local PD>
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
So he should have tried to provoke further racism against himself in order that he can record it? flawless logic - I can't see any reason why he wouldn't have wanted to do that. On a similar note, I often try and get people to punch me in the face so that I can then expose them for it. Maybe what you're doing here is the internet equivalent of trying to get someone to twat you? It's as good an explanation as any for your bizarre, incoherent and borderline racist intervention on this thread.
Maybe, just maybe, he'd had enough of being racially abused and having white people like you try and deny it really happened so he decided to record it this time - in order that 1) nobody could deny it took place and 2) the abuser deservedly gets shown up for what she is and becomes the recipient of widespread public scorn. Maybe these were his objectives - I suspect they probably were - in which case it's been a resounding success.
Or does everything a black person does have to have as its aim the ending of racism once and for all? Is it the same for white people? If it is, how did your reaction to the bloke getting pissed off because you tried to kill his dog help end racism?
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Are you not concerned that your seeming to tell black people how best to deal with the racism that they, not you, have experienced throughout their lives, may not paint you in a very good light?
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
But that was his way of 'confronting' or dealing with the situation! A non-violent way...who knows, perhaps he thought if I make it clear I am filming you, you will back off/modify your anger. At any rate, he fought back.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
You keep counselling that he should have walked away. How about her - do you think she should have walked away? Why don't you say so?
Ultimately, it's him who leaves first.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
The 'insanity defence' is pretty common in criminal proceedings. Only succeeds a small percentage of the time, though.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I don't think its that common in the US. A judge has to approve the defense and they aren't keen on doing so.
You have to remember that something like 25% of people suffer from some sort of mental illness some point in their life, so you're going to get at least some anti-social behavior that's attributed to it. I'm not necessarily saying that it definitely is in this case, but it is in the list of possibilities. It's also possible she's just an racist, arrogant bitch. Or, she's all of the above.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
She might well be bipolar; but what is the relationship between being bipolar and screaming racial abuse? Is being racist something inherent in the diagnosis of bipolar - or does bipolar just make it more difficult for a racist to 'keep it inside'? In other words, does a condition of bipolar just accentuate her underlying beliefs and attitudes? I don't know enough about it.
maomao
普費斯
It exposed her behaviour to a wider audience, letting her and people like her know that the majority of people find that kind of behaviour unacceptable. It also exposed the common lie that racism has been dealt with by society and isn't really a problem any more. It was more just than any of your preferred outcomes. Even if it only makes one person think twice before hurling racist abuse at people then it's been infinitely more effective in decreasing racism than your grand plan of just walking away which could only ever have reinforced that behaviour.
You haven't really explained what is wrong with this kind of exposure of racist behaviour other than you find something about it distasteful and some hand-wringing about her kids. Your argument basically comes down to you feeling more pity for someone who's had their unacceptable behaviour exposed than you do for the victim of that behaviour.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I'm no expert either. My admittedly limited experience, tells me that it makes it more difficult for them to keep it inside. Some of my mother's relatives will latch onto the most hurtful thing they can think of just because they want to hurt you in that moment. You have to admit that racism is pretty hurtful to a lot of people.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Whilst disagreeing that it was a poor choice - I think his was a great choice - I would hope that we can agree that it's very easy for you & I to discuss these choices at our leisure, and behind the safety of our computer screens, at home. A lot easier than having to make such choices on the street, in the heat of the moment, when someone is screaming at you (and, perhaps, with previous experience of being subjected to similar racist abuse, perhaps going back to childhood)
Are you not concerned that your seeming to tell black people how best to deal with the racism that they, not you, have experienced throughout their lives, may not paint you in a very good light?
This place has its fair share of tossers who see fit to deliberately misconstrue what I say. Not a lot I can do about other people's ignorance and agenda.
I'm also not advising people how to deal with racism. Again, for the umpteenth time, how does uploading a mentally damaged angry white stripper and her kids onto youtube deal with racism. He didn't confront her; he didn't challenge her; he didn't try to calm her down and explain that her behaviour is racist and that racism is bad. He did nothing to actually confront the problem at hand. He simply stuck his camera out while she went off the deep end. In my opinion doing that does not solve the problem, if it was a simsple as that we'd have no problem by now. In my opinion smearing people all over youtube is a desperate unproductive and damage act, and I say that to anyone in any situation (within reason) regarldess of whether racism is involved. This has nothing to do with telling black people what to do.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
is it really his job to run an impromptu E&D course while having 'nigger' this and 'nigger that' screamed at him. Come on.
maomao
普費斯
You've had several clear answers to that question, up to this page. If you want to continue the debate you have to refute the answer with a clear argument and we take it from there. Ignoring the answer and asking the question again is not an argument. You're not related to gmart by any chance are you?
I'm not denying him his choice. I'm simply commenting on it, which is what discussion forums are about. Aren't they? Or do the thought police not approve of my opinions?
Again: he did not fight back. He filmed a crazy woman who clearly has issues and in so doing exacerbated her aggression. Unfortunately for her the outlet she chose for her emotional overlaod - racism - was utterly and completely the wrong choice. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be about that, nor how many more times i need to say it.
Of course she should have walked away. I would think that is implicit every time I commented on how disgusting her behaviour was. I find it rather troubling that people are so self absorbed they assume racism in a statement like that and want to assume the worst in someone posting without any good reason, including backing down everytime when challenged to provide good reason. Such as that cunt, fridgemagnet.
Irrelevant. What matters here is whether or not she is genuinely affected. Going by her bvehaviour and what she says about herself, I would say so, though none of us can possibly know for certain.
She might also not actually be bipolar but inccorectly identifying what she really suffers from.
I have no idea what the relationship between being prone to such anger and racism is. Perhaps she just was so angry and wanted to lash out in the worst way. Perhaps she actually is racist. Without knowing her past and her life experiences we don't know, which is why i am uncomfortabel excoriating a damaged random woman on the street online forevermore.
Simplifying the situation by just screaming "RACIST!", however justified, doesn't address nor solve anything.
Apart from saying that youtube is full of racists being thusly exposed and it not doing anything to stop the problem?
Is it really 'hand wringing' to be concerned for her kids being bullied as a result of this? YOu think that never happens? That's dismissive in the extreme and very irresponsible. You can't just rationalise any degree of response on the basis of racist provocation, that's why society has rules.
I also doubt that racists watching this video will change their attitude, and judging by the comments I'm not wrong.
I'm not condemning him for his choice at all. I'm simply saying that, in my opinion, it was not the way to handle this. If people don't want to credit my opinion with any credibility because i'm a white guy at home on a computer forum, well so be it.
Again, for the umpteenth time, noone is justifying racism, despite what the morons on here that keep stalking my every post would like to think.
And yet racism prevails, as is self evident from this video, despite Youtube having a history of exposing racism, including clips of insituational racism from cops which I already conceded would be an acceptable use of the site.
I didn't say it was his 'job', and I don't pretend it's easy. Of course it's not. No situation when you're confronted with an angry aggressive individual threatening you is easy. So instead choose whatever course of action you're comfortable with, I can only hope you choose something productive.
As Bill Hicks says: "if it's a piece of shit, walk away"
I don't expect him to have done anyone thing. People make their own choices. But don't tell me, especially after making it public on youtube, that I can't comment on that choice. This clip has not achieved the outcome you people think it has, and it was only fortune that got it the wider attention. Plenty of other vidoes don't make the news and there's a lot more shocking stuff than this.
maomao
普費斯
Prevails? You sure? No-one's claimed that it will either stop racism or change racists beliefs. I've said that it will change behaviour, leading to a better environment. Think about the effect on those two kids if he had just driven away. Two impressionable young minds would have had a nice demonstration that if you scream n----- at a black man he goes away and leaves you alone.
I don't mean prevails in the sense it's winning out in the public mind, but that it still exists.
Those two kids got that impression anyway, and it lasted a lot longer than if he had walked away. That's the targedy of it all. Sticking this on youtube doesn't diminish the impact of her actions on her kids.
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SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
And of course if he'd called the police/walked away/been nice to someone who's just racially abused him (which appear to be your preferred options) racism would no longer exist.
I know you'll ignore this because you can't answer it, but the yardstick you're testing his posting of the video by - whether or not it ended racism - is not one he could possibly have met no matter what his response. None of your idiotic suggestions would have done any better. There is literally nothing he could have done that would result in racism ceasing to exist - and therefore there is no way the actions of this man could have met with your approval.
I think the course of action he took was more effective both in making him feel better (which is all he was obliged to achieve) and in combating racism than your preferred strategy of letting the racist act with impunity.
Although I have to say that after spending 13 pages on this thread defending a racist and defaming a victim of racial abuse, and then using sexist insults on another thread - both of which you've done today by the way - I suspect you might be a troll. At least I hope you are because the alternative is far uglier.
And you tried to kill that bloke's dog - which did nothing to end racism. What kind of man are you?
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