Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working...

[eoin_k]

>50% of male lions die as a result of violence with other male lions. I would see a troop of baboons as more analogous to human society - baboon society is very hierarchical, and while male lions must defeat other males to become a pack leader, the infant of a high-ranking baboon mother is itself also high-ranking without having to do anything. Surely that's more analogous to human society and the privilege we're talking about on this thread.

In studies of similarly hierarchical vervet monkeys, it is observed that low-ranking individuals tend to be much more friendly towards individuals from rival troops, and also much less interested in defending territory, than their high-ranking 'betters'. Again, I see parallels here - those without privilege do not necessarily share the concerns of those with privilege over maintaining the existing order. Why should they?

Isn't the obvious problem with all your analogies from other animal species that they tend to essentialise human social relations? One of the most remarkable properties of human social life has to be its malleability. No other species can begin to reflect the range of different forms. We can't begin to generalise about political organisation of ancient Sparta and a Swiss mountain valley, or familial relations between the Saudi Arabian royal family and within the kinship networks on a Pacific Atoll, or economic life in a rural peasant commune and a modern capitalist state.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Isn't the obvious problem with all your analogies from other animal species that they tend to essentialise human social relations? One of the most remarkable properties of human social life has to be its malleability. No other species can begin to reflect the range of different forms. We can't begin to generalise about political organisation of ancient Sparta and a Swiss mountain valley, or familial relations between the Saudi Arabian royal family and within the kinship networks on a Pacific Atoll, or economic life in a rural peasant commune and a modern capitalist state.

The analogies certainly have their limits. For me at least, it can be useful to look at simpler systems in order to identify some underlying principles that are also at work in more complex systems. However, this time, I promise I really will leave this alone. A subject for another thread.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The analogies certainly have their limits. For me at least, it can be useful to look at simpler systems in order to identify some underlying principles that are also at work in more complex systems. However, this time, I promise I really will leave this alone. A subject for another thread.

Would be great if somebody started a new thread on this spin off topic on humans, animals and the basis/nature of moral activity in the philosophy forum. Don't have too much time to participate in it just at the minute, but I will follow with great interest.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Until very recently, asking questions about animal minds could lose you your scientific career.

What do you mean by 'very recently'? When I studied Psychology way back in the Seventies, there was a branch called Comparative Psychology ....

Comparative psychology - Wikipedia

which was doing exactly that. Perhaps there was a difference between North America and Europe.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, we were going in circles.

Problem is your 'for sure'. It's not really what science deals with.

I'd agree with that.


That's why I questioned you when you made this statement

littlebabyjesus said: ↑
He's nearly there except that he's wrong about wolves. Wolves punish transgressors. They have morals, too.

as if it were a fact, a certainty.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I had determined not to respond to jc3 any more.

Because I was disagreeing with you?

It seemed an interesting discussion to me, and one that seemed to be without the usual rancour so often evident here.

I'm sorry if this discussion has somehow offended you.

 

[General Veers]

People who voted for trump and brexit are thick, uneducated, or deluded it doesnt matter if they agree with me or not.

As they are voting against their own best interests.

On the matter of voting to leave the EU I would disagree with you opinion. That's all it is, your opinion. Does that make me thick, uneducated, racist or all three?

 

[General Veers]

Are you aware of your politics?

He or she is aware of their lofty contempt for their fellow citizens which is the subject of this thread really.

 

[B.I.G]

On the matter of voting to leave the EU I would disagree with you opinion. That's all it is, your opinion. Does that make me thick, uneducated, racist or all three?

You can disagree with my opinion and not be any of them. But if you voted for Brexit I would put you in one of the three categories. Observing the posts in the politics forum - many seem happy to discuss political semantics and it a bit dull - but they are welcome to do so, many would think the same about non-league football.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Back on topic, then.

 

[danny la rouge]

But if you voted for Brexit I would put you in one of the three categories.

Why do you hate the Greeks so much?

 

[B.I.G]

Why do you hate the Greeks so much?

The Greeks voted to stay in the EU. So anyone annoyed about the EU because of Greece has an issue with democracy.

 

[danny la rouge]

The Greeks voted to stay in the EU. So anyone annoyed about the EU because of Greece has an issue with democracy.

So, it's fine for the EU to punish Greece for giving a Christmas bonus to pensioners (which the Greeks also voted for)? We have to vote in favour of that or we're thick, uneducated or racist.

 

[butchersapron]

The Greeks voted to stay in the EU. So anyone annoyed about the EU because of Greece has an issue with democracy.

When did they do that then?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

The Greeks voted to stay in the EU. So anyone annoyed about the EU because of Greece has an issue with democracy.

And we voted to leave the EU....

 

[B.I.G]

When did they do that then?

They had a vote on the bailout. Refusing it would have seen them inevitably leave.

 

[B.I.G]

And we voted to leave the EU....

Am I not accepting the result? No. Just scathing of those who voted with Farage.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

They had a vote on the bailout. Refusing it would have seen them inevitably leave.

They did refuse it.

 

[B.I.G]

So, it's fine for the EU to punish Greece for giving a Christmas bonus to pensioners (which the Greeks also voted for)? We have to vote in favour of that or we're thick, uneducated or racist.

Britain staying in the EU has nothing to do with them punishing Greece. So am starting to think you might be thick or deluded.

 

[B.I.G]

They did refuse it.

Ha! True

 

[butchersapron]

They had a vote on the bailout. Refusing it would have seen them inevitably leave.

I think you need to check what the vote was and what the result was before proceeding any further.

 

[B.I.G]

I think you need to check what the vote was and what the result was before proceeding any further.

Already checked - I'm not ashamed to say when I was wrong - teaches me a lesson to not focus.

 

[butchersapron]

Already checked - I'm not ashamed to say when I was wrong - teaches me a lesson to not focus.

So now, armed with this new information, have another go at your reply to danny.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Already checked - I'm not ashamed to say when I was wrong - teaches me a lesson to not focus.

So given that you are pro-EU, and the EU are clearly disdainful of the Greek peoples' will, does this mean you have a problem with democracy? Why do you hate the Greeks BIG, why?

 

[mather]

The Greeks voted to stay in the EU. So anyone annoyed about the EU because of Greece has an issue with democracy.

It's amazing that you have the gall to call Leave voters thick when you post shit like this, you thick cunt.

 

[B.I.G]

So now, armed with this new information, have another go at your reply to danny.

Already did - us leaving the EU has no impact on what they do to the Greeks. Its deluded to think it does. The Greeks are responsible for themselves. They could leave as we have done. No one has stopped us.

 

[B.I.G]

It's amazing that you have the gall to call Leave voters thick when you post shit like this, you thick cunt.

Not remembering something correctly doesn't make you thick as far as I know, but I won't be bothered if you think I am.

 

[DotCommunist]

Britain staying in the EU has nothing to do with them punishing Greece. So am starting to think you might be thick or deluded.

continuing membership of a supra national state that has beggared greece- vindictivelly so? even if you lack the 'injury to one' feelings you can take a 'pragmatic' look and think 'thats how far they'll go'.

 

[B.I.G]

Not remembering something correctly doesn't make you thick as far as I know, but I won't be bothered if you think I am.

I certainly won't be holding down a massive feud like many on these boards.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Already did - us leaving the EU has no impact on what they do to the Greeks. Its deluded to think it does. The Greeks are responsible for themselves. They could leave as we have done. No one has stopped us.

Alas, this bit really isn't true.