Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working...

[B.I.G]

Let's just go with your belief that the majority of people in the UK are idiots* and > 15% of them are racists, how do you intend to produce these "less racist feelings"? Cos call be crazy but I don't think shouting "racist idiot" at them is really going to work.

*of course nothing like the majority of people in the UK voted Conservative, so who are actually calling idiots here? Non-voters? Anybody who didn't vote Labour?

I can judge them without wanting to help them.

 

[J Ed]

I can judge them without wanting to help them.

I think this is an honest articulation of a very widely held position these days.

 

[seventh bullet]

I'm put off by parts of the 'left' because there appears to be a starting point where most people I know are considered enemies, problems to be solved. I currently wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. I guess a part of the above is its class make up. I think The39thStep put it well when he talked not just about a so-called 'socialism' without the working class but against it.

 

[hot air baboon]

New yorker

reminds me of a classic quote "...the cartoons in the New Yorker are no laughing matter..." google has failed me as to who & the when though

 

[butchersapron]

I think this is an honest articulation of a very widely held position these days.

A position worse than even that of priests.

 

[Libertad]

reminds me of a classic quote "...the cartoons in the New Yorker are no laughing matter..." google has failed me as to who & the when though

If in doubt it'll be Dorothy Parker.

 

[butchersapron]

There may be something here about the return to the days before the 30 post war years of social mobility and all that entailed and all that drove it, and to the class/social apartheid that existed. As all the above breaks down and goes into reverse, so this class separateness appears to be making a comeback - and in doing so, undermining the ideology of we're all in together, class no longer exists, embourgeoisement (or the reverse: everyone is being forced into becoming w/c) and so on that accompanied those 30 or so years and have become the dominant tone of all of the main parties. The drawing of distinctions - on intelligence, background, work, education, age, region etc - is back big time.

 

[redsquirrel]

I can judge them without wanting to help them.

What an mad, and horrible, post. Whose talking about "helping them"? I was trying to outline a course of action that would "help" you, presumably you don't want a Tory government?

 

[B.I.G]

What an mad, and horrible, post. Whose talking about "helping them"? I was trying to outline a course of action that would "help" you, presumably you don't want a Tory government?

Its not mad or horrible. The thread is about how calling people stupid isn't working. Why would anyone want to help the stupid and/or racist. These stupid and/or racist voters have delivered Trump in the US, leaving the EU in the UK, and likely Le Pen in France. Why would I want to help them?

Instead I judge them for their stupidity and intolerance. I don't want a Tory government but most of the time they sre are are stupid and/or racist to vote them in. Assuming the majority of the country aren't all wealthy enough to vote Tory to protect their wealth.

 

[treelover]

Hearing lots like BIG's posts, disturbing, if it is ubiquitous, the rise of the right is largely a given imo.

 

[danny la rouge]

Well received by many, well not many, but a very vocal and confident minority



I think that this stuff is going to be the sort of thing that characterises the 'resistance' to right-wing populism.

It's depressing if so.

 

[J Ed]

Hearing lots like BIG's posts, disturbing, if it is ubiquitous, the rise of the right is largely a given imo.

Our politics is increasingly just Nick Clegg or Nigel Farage

 

[danny la rouge]

Its not mad or horrible. The thread is about how calling people stupid isn't working. Why would anyone want to help the stupid and/or racist.

Everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or racist. Therefore they're stupid and/or racist.

That's all you've got.

 

[redsquirrel]

Its not mad or horrible. The thread is about how calling people stupid isn't working. Why would anyone want to help the stupid and/or racist. These stupid and/or racist voters have delivered Trump in the US, leaving the EU in the UK, and likely Le Pen in France. Why would I want to help them?

Instead I judge them for their stupidity and intolerance. I don't want a Tory government but most of the time they sre are are stupid and/or racist to vote them in. Assuming the majority of the country aren't all wealthy enough to vote Tory to protect their wealth.

You don't think this view is horrible? That your hatred/contempt for the majority of the people in the UK (the world?) isn't horrible.

Well I don't think there's much else to say.

 

[seventh bullet]

Its not mad or horrible. The thread is about how calling people stupid isn't working. Why would anyone want to help the stupid and/or racist. These stupid and/or racist voters have delivered Trump in the US, leaving the EU in the UK, and likely Le Pen in France. Why would I want to help them?

Instead I judge them for their stupidity and intolerance. I don't want a Tory government but most of the time they sre are are stupid and/or racist to vote them in. Assuming the majority of the country aren't all wealthy enough to vote Tory to protect their wealth.

The hostility shown towards mainly poor working class people (who seem to get the blame for all the evils of the universe) and the multifarious reasons for individual voting choices etc, reveals a general bigotry towards the wider working class expressed by middle class liberals. Even the people who are deemed somewhat respectable for having not voted the 'wrong' way are still lesser people, just they are thick, uneducated lower class scum who weren't so offensive this time and didn't pipe up. Remember only one 'side' is ignorant, only one side hates. When engaging with them like this it's not on our terms.

 

[B.I.G]

Everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and/or racist. Therefore they're stupid and/or racist.

That's all you've got.

I think people that voted for brexit, trump, or will vote for le pen are stupid, racist, or deluded and most times all three.

And I have contempt for them.

 

[B.I.G]

The hostility shown towards mainly poor working class people (who seem to get the blame for all the evils of the universe) and the multifarious reasons for individual voting choices etc, reveals a general bigotry towards the wider working class expressed by middle class liberals. Even the people who are deemed somewhat respectable for having not voted the 'wrong' way are still lesser people, just they are thick, uneducated lower class scum who weren't so offensive this time and didn't pipe up. Remember only one 'side' is ignorant, only one side hates. When engaging with them like this it's not on our terms.

There are plenty of thick uneducated middle class scum.

 

[Dogsauce]

The hostility shown towards mainly poor working class people (who seem to get the blame for all the evils of the universe) and the multifarious reasons for individual voting choices etc, reveals a general bigotry towards the wider working class expressed by middle class liberals. Even the people who are deemed somewhat respectable for having not voted the 'wrong' way are still lesser people, just they are thick, uneducated lower class scum who weren't so offensive this time and didn't pipe up. Remember only one 'side' is ignorant, only one side hates. When engaging with them like this it's not on our terms.

TBH it's part of the long tradition of 'punching down' that's been cultivated by those at the top for decades; middle-class blaming the working class, working class blaming the non-working ('scroungers') or migrant labour etc. Classic divide and rule. Maybe the leave vote is seen to have broken these rules by 'punching up' (even if the result was as much driven by well-fed Tory golf club bigots etc - just make sure the blame points down)

 

[J Ed]

There are plenty of thick uneducated middle class scum.

Perhaps using the words 'thick' and 'uneducated' to describe 'people I disagree with' is not a good idea.

 

[danny la rouge]

Perhaps using the words 'thick' and 'uneducated' to describe 'people I disagree with' is not a good idea.

"Uneducated" is the give away.

 

[B.I.G]

Perhaps using the words 'thick' and 'uneducated' to describe 'people I disagree with' is not a good idea.

I regard racists as thick. Apologies for that.

I regard people without education as uneducated. Apologies for that.

You haven't really tried to engage with my points.

 

[danny la rouge]

I regard people without education as uneducated. Apologies for that.

You haven't really tried to engage with my points.

Ok, so what does that bit mean? Who is "without education"? Do you propose to "educate" them? Or just insult them? If you propose to try to educate them, will part of the process be insulting them and their intelligence?

 

[chilango]

Fuck you B.I.G

You are the enemy right now.

 

[J Ed]

I regard racists as thick. Apologies for that.

I regard people without education as uneducated. Apologies for that.

You haven't really tried to engage with my points.

I don't really see what your points are other than you regard a lack of intelligence or a lack of education as being why people would disagree with you, and that that makes them bad.

More than anything, it just isn't true. The majority of university-educated white people in the US voted for Trump, for example. In Britain, 57% of university graduates voted Remain, so education is hardly an 'inoculation' against 'positions that B.I.G disagrees with'.

 

[B.I.G]

Ok, so what does that bit mean? Who is "without education"? Do you propose to "educate" them? Or just insult them? If you propose to try to educate them, will part of the process be insulting them and their intelligence?

People without education is can be defined as people who left school at 16, now 18 I assume, and didnt complete any professional education in their career, for example, plumbing examinations.

I would also include people as educated as those that are widely read regardless of formal education.

If people lack education, Uneducated is not an insult, anymore than lack of common sense or unattractive is, merely a description.

Thick is an insult.

And I don't propose to try and educate them. That would imply an assumption that I am in a position to do so. They can educate themselves if they so choose.

 

[B.I.G]

I don't really see what your points are other than you regard a lack of intelligence or a lack of education as being why people would disagree with you, and that that makes them bad.

More than anything, it just isn't true. The majority of university-educated white people in the US voted for Trump, for example. In Britain, 57% of university graduates voted Remain, so education is hardly an 'inoculation' against 'positions that B.I.G disagrees with'.

Your argument is that people went to university aren't thick, no?

I would strongly dispute that statement.

 

[J Ed]

Your argument is that people went to university aren't thick, no?

I would strongly dispute that statement.

You used the term uneducated.

 

[B.I.G]

I don't really see what your points are other than you regard a lack of intelligence or a lack of education as being why people would disagree with you, and that that makes them bad.

More than anything, it just isn't true. The majority of university-educated white people in the US voted for Trump, for example. In Britain, 57% of university graduates voted Remain, so education is hardly an 'inoculation' against 'positions that B.I.G disagrees with'.

People who voted for trump and brexit are thick, uneducated, or deluded it doesnt matter if they agree with me or not.

As they are voting against their own best interests.

 

[danny la rouge]

People without education is can be defined as people who left school at 16, now 18 I assume, and didnt complete any professional education in their career, for example, plumbing examinations.

I would also include people as educated as those that are widely read regardless of formal education.

If people lack education, Uneducated is not an insult, anymore than lack of common sense or unattractive is, merely a description.

Thick is an insult.

And I don't propose to try and educate them. That would imply an assumption that I am in a position to do so. They can educate themselves if they so choose.

So, how did it come about that people not educated beyond the statutory age voted for Brexit?

 

[B.I.G]

You used the term uneducated.

I used the phrase uneducated, thick, or deluded. People can beling to one or more of the groups.