Potential effect of Scottish Independence on the rest of the Common Travel Area

[Border Reiver]

Should Scotland successfully leave the UK and become independent, how would England, Wales, Northern Ireland, and Ireland be affected? Some rather angry English residents suggest ensuring that Scotland fails by erecting a border and other measures to "protect" England. It is even suggested that any border should be not only for goods but also for people.

This ignores the unavoidable fact that almost all Scottish residents have British nationality and a right to live anywhere in the UK and Ireland. The idea of a border that would differentiate between Scottish and non Scottish residents is unthinkable. One in ten Scots were actually born in England. Even Irish people born before 1948 and full independence are entitled to a full British passport (See Sir Terry Wogan).

The corollary of this is that England (Westminster) must treat Scotland well and nurture its economy after independence, as should Scotland's economy fail, emigration south would be an escape and a burden on the Rump UK; much more serious than the Ugandan Asians in the seventies.

Scottish Independence does not effectively allow complete separation of the Scottish and Rump UK economies which will remain necessarily interdependent.

 

[steeplejack]

You seem awfully exercised by topics on Scottish independence.

Why?

 

[Sue]

You seem awfully exercised by topics on Scottish independence.

Why?

Going by their user name, they're from the English or Scottish borderlands.

 

[Border Reiver]

You seem awfully exercised by topics on Scottish independence.

Why?

Residence and nationality.

More interested in how people from England feel about a potential failed state to the north.

 

[steeplejack]

shit-stirring banned returner more like. Obsessive posting on a thread on transhopbia, trying to link "Alba" to direct action as a means to gauge who on here would support direct action and under what circumstances, and now this drivel.

Smells like a past-it's-sell-by-date Morrison's kipper that was wrongly put in the recycling bin.

 

[ddraig]

Residence and nationality.

More interested in how people from England feel about a potential failed state to the north.

"failed state" fuck off, if it's failing/likely to fail then why are boris and co (including a lot of little englunders) so keen to keep it in the union?

 

[Sue]

shit-stirring banned returner more like. Obsessive posting on a thread on transhopbia, trying to link "Alba" to direct action as a means to gauge who on here would support direct action and under what circumstances, and now this drivel.

Smells like a past-it's-sell-by-date Morrison's kipper that was wrongly put in the recycling bin.

Oh, definitely a returner.

 

[cupid_stunt]

shit-stirring banned returner more like. Obsessive posting on a thread on transhopbia, trying to link "Alba" to direct action as a means to gauge who on here would support direct action and under what circumstances, and now this drivel.

Smells like a past-it's-sell-by-date Morrison's kipper that was wrongly put in the recycling bin.

I suspect you are right, they also got banned from the 'Possible serious side effects from the Astra Zeneca vaccine discussion' thread for trolling, I doubt they will be around for too much longer.

 

[JimW]

All states are potentially failed ones.

 

[mauvais]

More interested in how people from England feel about a potential failed state to the north.

Got more going for it than the actual failed state to the north, south, east and west.

 

[Border Reiver]

"failed state" fuck off, if it's failing/likely to fail then why are boris and co (including a lot of little englunders) so keen to keep it in the union?

Not in reality. In the fantasy of English opponents of independence. Try reading the Daily Mail Comments when independence is in the news. They forget that Scots, like the Irish on independence, will have rights to settle in England because of their birth as British citizens.

 

[Pickman's model]

Even Irish people born before 1948 and full independence are entitled to a full British passport (See Sir Terry Wogan).

You have to be really ignorant (and quite stupid) to post something like this, bearing in mind Ireland has not got full independence (there's those six counties still unfree)

 

[Border Reiver]

shit-stirring banned returner more like. Obsessive posting on a thread on transhopbia, trying to link "Alba" to direct action as a means to gauge who on here would support direct action and under what circumstances, and now this drivel.

Smells like a past-it's-sell-by-date Morrison's kipper that was wrongly put in the recycling bin.

Onto ignore for abuse.

 

[kebabking]

Should Scotland successfully leave the UK and become independent, how would England, Wales, Northern Ireland, and Ireland be affected? Some rather angry English residents suggest ensuring that Scotland fails by erecting a border and other measures to "protect" England. It is even suggested that any border should be not only for goods but also for people.

This ignores the unavoidable fact that almost all Scottish residents have British nationality and a right to live anywhere in the UK and Ireland. The idea of a border that would differentiate between Scottish and non Scottish residents is unthinkable. One in ten Scots were actually born in England. Even Irish people born before 1948 and full independence are entitled to a full British passport (See Sir Terry Wogan).

The corollary of this is that England (Westminster) must treat Scotland well and nurture its economy after independence, as should Scotland's economy fail, emigration south would be an escape and a burden on the Rump UK; much more serious than the Ugandan Asians in the seventies.

Scottish Independence does not effectively allow complete separation of the Scottish and Rump UK economies which will remain necessarily interdependent.

Your central argument is pish - you'll have noticed that quite recently lots of people who were entitled to live and work in a large geographic area by dint of citizenship stopped being entitled to live and work in a large geographic area by dint of citizenship.

If/when Scotland becomes an independent state, it will cease being part of the UK, and therefore its citizens will cease being UK citizens - just as those who live in England, Wales and NI will lose the Scottish bit of their citizenship.

A Scotland/rUK deal, post independence, will be - imv - far more important to Scotland than EU accession simply because vastly more Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK than go to the EU.

It would certainly make sense for rUK to maintain as good and as close relationship with an indy Scotland as it would for a indy Scotland to maintain as good and close a relationship with rUK - but firstly that requires a two way street, and secondly politicians tend not to look further than their own noses - particularly when they've got howling bellends screaming at them.

 

[Pickman's model]

Your central argument is pish - you'll have noticed that quite recently lots of people who were entitled to live and work in a large geographic area by dint of citizenship stopped being entitled to live and work in a large geographic area by dint of citizenship.

If/when Scotland becomes an independent state, it will cease being part of the UK, and therefore its citizens will cease being UK citizens - just as those who live in England, Wales and NI will lose the Scottish bit of their citizenship.

A Scotland/rUK deal, post independence, will be - imv - far more important to Scotland than EU accession simply because vastly more Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK than go to the EU.

It would certainly make sense for rUK to maintain as good and as close relationship with an indy Scotland as it would for a indy Scotland to maintain as good and close a relationship with rUK - but firstly that requires a two way street, and secondly politicians tend not to look further than their own noses - particularly when they've got howling bellends screaming at them.

It's wicked to mock the afflicted

 

[cupid_stunt]

Onto ignore for abuse.

You must have almost half the regular posters on ignore for abuse, what sort of fucking loon are you?

Why don't you just fuck off, you cunt?

 

[Border Reiver]

Oh, definitely a returner.

Never been here before. I should be pretty easy to identify. English living twenty years in Scotland, retired NHS clinician. Early retired as house husband as had children in my fifties. In my seventies. Grew up in the USA in the sixties. Pretty specific. Try to match that profile.

 

[Border Reiver]

You must have almost half the regular posters on ignore for abuse, what sort of fucking loon are you?

Why don't you just fuck off, you cunt?

That says something about the debating ability of those regular posters.

Onto ignore for abuse. Goodbye.

 

[mauvais]

vastly more Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK than go to the EU.

Well, they certainly do now.

 

[Sue]

Never been here before. I should be pretty easy to identify. English living twenty years in Scotland, retired NHS clinician. Early retired as house husband as had children in my fifties. In my seventies. Grew up in the USA in the sixties. Pretty specific. Try to match that profile.

Why? Seriously, I'm really not interested.

 

[cupid_stunt]

That says something about the debating ability of those regular posters.

Onto ignore for abuse. Goodbye.

Cheers.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why? Seriously, I'm really not interested.

It's the profile of someone who spent there first ten years or so cryogenically frozen otherwise the grew up in the USA in the sixties doesn't fit the chronology

 

[danny la rouge]

Well, they certainly do now.

This is one of the things that amuses me. Scotland is currently part of the Union. Discussion of how Scotland is now misses the point of what it is pro independence people want. Things to be different.

 

[Sue]

That says something about the debating ability of those regular posters.

Forward Comrades!

 

[eatmorecheese]

That says something about the debating ability of those regular posters.

Onto ignore for abuse. Goodbye.

On to ignore for self-abuse.

 

[Pickman's model]

That says something about the debating ability of those regular posters.

You've debated with lots of people, I suppose you're a mass debater

 

[danny la rouge]

trying to link "Alba" to direct action

Which was and still is utter bollocks.

 

[Border Reiver]

Your central argument is pish - you'll have noticed that quite recently lots of people who were entitled to live and work in a large geographic area by dint of citizenship stopped being entitled to live and work in a large geographic area by dint of citizenship.

If/when Scotland becomes an independent state, it will cease being part of the UK, and therefore its citizens will cease being UK citizens - just as those who live in England, Wales and NI will lose the Scottish bit of their citizenship.

A Scotland/rUK deal, post independence, will be - imv - far more important to Scotland than EU accession simply because vastly more Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK than go to the EU.

It would certainly make sense for rUK to maintain as good and as close relationship with an indy Scotland as it would for a indy Scotland to maintain as good and close a relationship with rUK - but firstly that requires a two way street, and secondly politicians tend not to look further than their own noses - particularly when they've got howling bellends screaming at them.

Did not happen with Ireland in 1948. Any Irish person born before 1948 is still eligible for British citizenship. See Terry Wogan.

How could one identify a "Scot". Why would a unionist Scot living in Glasgow lose their citizenship but not a Scot living in the USA? There is no way to remove British citizenship except for individual cause.

I suggest you give more thought to your arguments in future.

 

[steeplejack]

Yep, as is the fantasy claim that "disgruntled English residents" will want Scotland to fail by insisting on a hard border

I mean, make a fucking effort.

 

[Sue]

You've debated with lots of people, I suppose you're a mass debater

Well played, Senor Model, well played.