Possible vaccines/treatment(s) for Coronavirus

[LDC]

Just a reminder; first dose given on day 0, second dose given on day 21, full immunity from day 28.

So 4 weeks from having the first dose to having full immunity (although possibily some limited immunity before that).

 

[brogdale]

Anyone with any knowledge of vaccine logistics know whether or not the govt. has given any thought to how the most infirm elderly can be vaccinated. I'm figuring that many will be physically unable to make it into where the cold chamber delivery is proposed, or mentally unsure after 9 months of self-isolation.

 

[frogwoman]

I'm guessing you can get the vaccine if you've already had covid but will you have to wait a period of time before you can get it?

 

[Teaboy]

Anyone with any knowledge of vaccine logistics know whether or not the govt. has given any thought to how the most infirm elderly can be vaccinated. I'm figuring that many will be physically unable to make it into where the cold chamber delivery is proposed, or mentally unsure after 9 months of self-isolation.

Its a good question. The logistics of the whole operation just get more mind boggling the closer you look.

 

[brogdale]

I'm guessing you can get the vaccine if you've already had covid but will you have to wait a period of time before you can get it?

There's also quite a few health professionals who've taken part in the Oxford vaccine blind trials who don't know if they've been given the vaccine or the placebo; very difficult for them to know whether or not they should take the Pfizer if offered?

 

[brogdale]

Its a good question. The logistics of the whole operation just get more mind boggling the closer you look.

Really worried that mu disabled parents (85+) will be called out of their strictly imposed self-isolation into a potentially dangerous environment/mixing to be given the vaccine. Could produce it's own spike if immune its only develops properly weeks after jab 1.

 

[2hats]

Anyone with any knowledge of vaccine logistics know whether or not the govt. has given any thought to how the most infirm elderly can be vaccinated. I'm figuring that many will be physically unable to make it into where the cold chamber delivery is proposed, or mentally unsure after 9 months of self-isolation.

Pfizer state BNT162b2 vaccine vials can be stored for up to 5 days at standard refrigeration (2-8C) having been thawed from -70C(±10C) storage (30 days lifetime).

To assure product quality, the companies have developed specially designed, temperature-controlled shippers for the BNT162b2 vaccine candidate, which can maintain recommended storage conditions (-70°C ±10°C) for extended periods of time without any additional equipment but dry ice. The shipper can maintain temperature for 10 days unopened which allows for transportation to markets globally. Once open, a vaccination centre may use the specially designed shippers as a temporary storage solution to maintain the recommended storage conditions (-70°C ±10°C) up to 30 days with re-icing every five days in accordance with the handling instructions. Each shipper contains a GPS-enabled thermal sensor to track the location and temperature of each vaccine shipment 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Once thawed, the vaccine vial can be stored for up to five days at refrigerated (2-8°C) conditions.

 

[belboid]

There's also quite a few health professionals who've taken part in the Oxford vaccine blind trials who don't know if they've been given the vaccine or the placebo; very difficult for them to know whether or not they should take the Pfizer if offered?

They will be told which they had and offered any approved alternative, I asked when I was last in for my bloods.

 

[brogdale]

Pfizer state BNT162b2 vaccine vials can be stored for up to 5 days at standard refrigeration (2-8C) having been thawed from -70C(±10C) storage (30 days lifetime).

Good info, but what really matters is how well the govt. respond to the challenge of the cold chamber/life-span of the Pfizer; I fear they'll go for the cheapest, centralised big centre delivery method.

 

[LDC]

There's also quite a few health professionals who've taken part in the Oxford vaccine blind trials who don't know if they've been given the vaccine or the placebo; very difficult for them to know whether or not they should take the Pfizer if offered?

I'm a healthcare worker and am on another vaccine trial, and when we get offered a vaccine for real (maybe this one?) then we have to contact the trial for advice. They have said if we take the vaccine then we have to withdraw from the trial (for obvious reasons) so I guess some people might not have the vaccine to keep the numbers in the trial up high enough.

When we withdraw from the trial then they 'unblind' us and we can find out whether we had the vaccine or placebo. Then we can make a decision whether to have the vaccine or not bother if we've had the one on the trial.

 

[brogdale]

Good info, but what really matters is how well the govt. respond to the challenge of the cold chamber/life-span of the Pfizer; I fear they'll go for the cheapest, centralised big centre delivery method.

As in..

 

[Sunray]

The -70 storage is an issue but from what I can gather the NHS is already on top of this

Martin Sawer, the executive director of the Healthcare Distribution Association, which represents the warehouse owners, said the vaccine will be kept in specially-designed extreme-low temperature freezers acquired by the NHS and lent to warehouses for the duration of the rollout. Once an order is received from vaccination centres, stocks will be moved to “massive fridges the size of small bungalows” to be defrosted over three hours and, once thawed, placed in refrigerated vans immediately for distribution.

Thankfully this appears to be an NHS lead operation, might get it done as fast as it's possible to do and be safe while doing it.

 

[ska invita]

If theres any kind of a fuck up with these rushed but hopefully sound vaccines a la the swine flu narcolepsy cases i fear the loonasphere will explode to epic proportions...its hard to know how big it is now, but i do worry as to how big it can get

 

[elbows]

No matter how much time they spend in press conferences pointing out that we dont yet have data that would tell us to what extent if any the vaccines stop people transmitting the virus, we still end up with articles like this one that include several scenarios that are only unlocked if that sort of protection is demonstrated.

NHS workers: 'Vaccine is a game changer'

NHS workers have been giving their reaction to the news the vaccine will be rolled out in the UK from next week.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sunray]

No matter how much time they spend in press conferences pointing out that we dont yet have data that would tell us to what extent if any the vaccines stop people transmitting the virus, we still end up with articles like this one that include several scenarios that are only unlocked if that sort of protection is demonstrated.

NHS workers: 'Vaccine is a game changer'

NHS workers have been giving their reaction to the news the vaccine will be rolled out in the UK from next week.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Oxford/AztraZeneca trial had people take and send in swabs weekly. So this will be available during its approval process.

 

[editor]

Good piece here:

Less than a year to develop a COVID vaccine – here’s why you shouldn’t be alarmed

Vaccines are being touted as taking seven to ten years to develop. But you shouldn’t be worried that COVID vaccines only took less than a year.

theconversation.com

 

[Supine]

Pfizer are reducing their estimated supply volumes for 2020 due to quality issues in the supply chain. Still looking ok for 2021.

It's not unusual for this kind of thing to happen during the startup phase of pharma manufacturing. Infact it should be seen as a good thing to know quality comes first. No idea if this impacts UK but possibly not as I think we have our 2020 supplies already.

 

[cupid_stunt]

We could have done without Fauci's comments, which will feed the anti-vaxxer loons.

The UK approved a Covid-19 vaccine without compromising safety, the medicines regulator said after America’s top infectious disease expert questioned the level of scrutiny.

Dr Anthony Fauci, the director of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, warned the speed at which the UK approved the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine could undermine confidence in the jab.

Dr Fauci told CBS American regulators would do a “more thorough job”, although he later backed away from the comments, saying he was not implying sloppiness on the part of British authorities, in whom he had “great faith”.

Top US scientist says UK has 'rushed through' vaccine approval

The European regulator has also criticised the approval of the vaccine using emergency powers, insisting that its own, slower approach is more appropriate

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[platinumsage]

We could have done without Fauci's comments, which will feed the anti-vaxxer loons.

Top US scientist says UK has 'rushed through' vaccine approval

The European regulator has also criticised the approval of the vaccine using emergency powers, insisting that its own, slower approach is more appropriate

www.walesonline.co.uk

He's now saying that he mis-spoke.

Fauci apologises for saying UK 'rushed' vaccine

After apparent criticism from the US expert, the UK defended the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[cupid_stunt]

He's now saying that he mis-spoke.

Fauci apologises for saying UK 'rushed' vaccine

After apparent criticism from the US expert, the UK defended the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.

www.bbc.co.uk

That sadly will get brushed over by the loons, they only magnify the stuff that fits their agenda.

Oh, and the European Medicines Agency has also echoed what Fauci originally said.

EU criticises ‘hasty’ UK approval of COVID-19 vaccine

European regulator says its approval process is more appropriate, as German politician calls UK move ‘problematic’.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Supine]

Oh, and the European Medicines Agency has also echoed what Fauci originally said.

EU criticises ‘hasty’ UK approval of COVID-19 vaccine

European regulator says its approval process is more appropriate, as German politician calls UK move ‘problematic’.

www.aljazeera.com

I can't see anything in that link specifically about EMA critising the decision. Looks like shoddy journalism with a couple of quotes from random politicians.

The MHRA are leaders in the field. I'm going to keep trusting them for now.

 

[elbows]

For me such things were an inevitable consequence of other countries feeling pressure as a result of the UKs accelerated timing. That and idiots like Williamson trying to turn the whole thing into a flag waving exercise.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA), which is in charge of approving the vaccine in the EU, defended its time frame in a statement.

It said it had the "most appropriate" method to approve the vaccine.

Before deciding on whether to approve a vaccine, the EMA studies data from lab studies and large clinical trials.

"These are essential elements to ensure a high level of protection to citizens during the course of a mass vaccination campaign," the statement said.

Covid: Are countries under pressure to approve a vaccine?

After the UK's approval of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, are other nations under pressure to follow suit?

www.bbc.co.uk

Broadly speaking I think most places have accelerated things and additional surveillance will be required during vaccine rollout to make sure certain safety implications of rushing are adequately compensated for. The real shit should not hit the UK fan unless the EU regulator turns out to be unhappy with something in the vaccine data as they scrutinise it in the weeks ahead, causing them to reach a different conclusion to that of the UK. Then things would get messy, but its not something I particularly expect to happen.

 

[elbows]

The Oxford/AztraZeneca trial had people take and send in swabs weekly. So this will be available during its approval process.

Ah I note the following from a document that bimble just mentioned on another thread, which contains something of relevance:

The level of sterilising immunity provided by natural infection or immunisation is not yet fully understood. Data on the level of sterilising immunity provided by natural infection should be available from the SIREN study and the Oxford Health Care Worker study before the end of the year. Data on the level of sterilising immunity provided by immunisation should be available from some vaccine studies before the end of the year.

From the key uncertainties bit of https://assets.publishing.service.g...96/S907_NERVTAG_certifying_COVID_immunity.pdf

 

[weltweit]

Russia apparently has "Sputnik B" vaccine, it seems it hasn't yet finished trials.

 

[William of Walworth]

Really good article (IMO!) by Charlotte Summers in today's Guardian, on why there are a lot of reasons to trust the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

The Covid vaccine arrived quickly – but there's every reason to trust it
It’s safe, it works, and it gives a tantalising glimpse of what else might be achieved given sufficient political will

• Dr Charlotte Summers is a lecturer in intensive care medicine at the University of Cambridge

Plenty of good detail on exactly how the (new) mRNA method works --- but despite the sciencey detail, I found what she wrote nice and accessibly for non-scientists such as me

She also has a pretty sound-looking argument about why (despite the speed of development and approval with this), concerns about this vaccine being less safe, are misplaced

 

[Badgers]

 

[elbows]

A pretty good reality check regarding stuff like how many people need vaccinating before things like population immunity and utter normality become relevant.

Covid-19: Will a vaccine give us our old lives back? - BBC News

Why vaccines need to reach a huge number of people before we can safely ditch our face masks.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[frogwoman]

A mate of mine said that she's been advised not to get the flu vaccine because of having an autoimmune condition, and she is slightly nervous about having this Covid one even though she told me that she almost certainly is going to get it.

Is there any information I can send her that can reassure her that it won't be an issue?

 

[purenarcotic]

A mate of mine said that she's been advised not to get the flu vaccine because of having an autoimmune condition, and she is slightly nervous about having this Covid one even though she told me that she almost certainly is going to get it.

Is there any information I can send her that can reassure her that it won't be an issue?

She should ask her dr or consultant. Some people will not be eligible for the COVID vaccine because of their underlying condition. If she has been told she can get it, I assume it will be because the mechanism of how the vaccine works is different to how the flu vaccine works.

 

[frogwoman]

She should ask her dr or consultant. Some people will not be eligible for the COVID vaccine because of their underlying condition. If she has been told she can get it, I assume it will be because the mechanism of how the vaccine works is different to how the flu vaccine works.

what about the whole issue of vaccination certificates etc?