Photo ID now a requirement to vote in the UK

[brogdale]

One of the most troubling aspects of PV in the UK is the tendency for the established, larger parties to 'granny-farm' with mass PV visits to care settings. The motivation is obvious with older voters more likely to vote anyway and PV bumping up the 'turn-out' considerably. I'm persuaded that there's a place for PV for the old, infirm, immobile etc. but letting the parties organise its use has always looked well dodge to me.

 

[PR1Berske]

I don't even know what a blockchain is, and I guarantee that the elderly voters who rely on postal votes would rather trust putting a vote in a postbox than going to a town hall to play with computers.

The implication that all postal votes rely on certain people leaning on the family is touching questionable territory and let's just leave it there.

 

[StakerOne]

So, outside authority is bad unless you say so, and the individual is ultimately sovereign until they do something you disapprove of, then fuck 'em. Got it

Do not misrepresent my beliefs.

I've no problem with authority, it's just not optimial. We don't have authority over us when authority isn't needed.

That's why in a free society, we work for solutions where we don't need authority over us.

 

[StakerOne]

I don't even know what a blockchain is, and I guarantee that the elderly voters who rely on postal votes would rather trust putting a vote in a postbox than going to a town hall to play with computers.

The implication that all postal votes rely on certain people leaning on the family is touching questionable territory and let's just leave it there.

I don't know how AI works. But I do know that it's becoming easier and easier to talk to AI.

Same with blockchain. The front end apps are getting better and better.

I'm not suggesting for one minute that we stick something in that would have tech luddites confused. It has to work for everyone.

 

[Sasaferrato]

So, to sum up, if you want a Voter Authority Certificate you have to know/be aware/have of:

• the new legal requirement
• the deadline of 25/04/23 for the next elections
• how to access and use the relevant state website
• the wherewithal to create and send a recent, compliant digital photo
• your national insurance number
• failing that
• 3 or 4 of these documents:
  
  • birth, marriage, civil partnership or adoption certificate
  • firearms certificate (granted under the Firearms Act 1968)
  • bail decision record
  • mortgage or pension statement
  • bank, building society or credit card statement, or account confirmation letter
  • utility bill
  • Council Tax statement or demand
  • current or previous employer’s P45 or P60
  • benefits or entitlement statement, including:
    1. Universal Credit
    2. Disability Living Allowance
    3. Personal Independence Payments
    4. any other state benefits
• etc.

For vulnerable, marginalised or the dispossessed this looks like a almost endless list of barriers to being able to vote. Exactly as it was designed to be.

Whats a Bali Decision Record?

 

[mojo pixy]

Do not misrepresent my beliefs.

I've no problem with authority, it's just not optimial. We don't have authority over us when authority isn't needed.

That's why in a free society, we work for solutions where we don't need authority over us.

I'm not misrepresenting anything! You're all about individual sovereignty, but suddenly with this you're not. Explain how that is inaccurate.....

 

[brogdale]

Whats a Bali Decision Record?

Bail

 

[Sasaferrato]

Bail

Typo! What is is it?

 

[brogdale]

Typo! What is is it?

Sorry, dunno...never needed bail!

 

[NoXion]

There are NO legitimate postal votes because you can't prove any of them are legitmate.

When you say they are legit. You are just making shit up.

Nope, that's not how it works. Plenty of democracies have been making use of postal voting for a while, and it only suddenly became a problem when a certain spray-tanned narcissist failed to keep their office. Unless you can actually provide evidence that this fraud is occurring, you are just being salty because you think extending the franchise hurts the chances of candidates who don't appeal to anyone but elitists and miserable old racists.

 

[StakerOne]

The implication that all postal votes rely on certain people leaning on the family is touching questionable territory and let's just leave it there.

I've fucking witnessed it loads of times with my own eyes.

I've witnessed parents tell their kids point blank who they can and can't vote for. And don't get me started about men who are head of the household for larger families who have told me which way the entire family is voting. You can't tell me no coercion is being used there.
Canvassers just give up. Even if they could speak to each person in the household privately, the postal vote ballot papers all land on the doormat the same day. They are picked up, someone makes sure they vote the right way and the right party / candidate is given that bundle. THE END.

You fucking tell me how a smaller political party is supposed to be able to canvass to any effect, when it's all circumvented by one house hold member.

There's no fraud, but there is coercion and the secret ballot is no more, because that overbearing family member has insisted you register as a PV to ensure he/she can make sure you voted the right way.

It's a pile of fucking shite that robs vulnerable people of their secret ballot.

 

[NoXion]

I've fucking witnessed it loads of times with my own eyes.

Anecdotes are not evidence. For all we can tell, you're just telling tales.

 

[StakerOne]

Nope, that's not how it works. Plenty of democracies have been making use of postal voting for a while, and it only suddenly became a problem when a certain spray-tanned narcissist failed to keep their office. Unless you can actually provide evidence that this fraud is occurring, you are just being salty because you think extending the franchise hurts the chances of candidates who don't appeal to anyone but elitists and miserable old racists.

Fuck off. You're happy for vulnerable people to be robbed of their secret ballot. Don't preach to me about rights and freedoms ya fraud!

 

[cupid_stunt]

Typo! What is is it?

A 'Bail Decision Record' is a record of a decision to grant bail.

HTH

 

[mojo pixy]

StakerOne having a bit of a cognitive dissonance crisis, bless

 

[NoXion]

Fuck off. You're happy for vulnerable people to be robbed of their secret ballot. Don't preach to me about rights and freedoms ya fraud!

Funny how your reaction is "get rid of postal voting" and not "improve the postal voting process to help ensure ballots are secret". You sure you wanna go around calling people frauds when you so obviously tip your hand?

 

[StakerOne]

Anecdotes are not evidence. For all we can tell, you're just telling tales.

Please. You know full true well there are no safeguards against the scenarios I have cited. They do go on and you'd know that if you have ever bothered to canvass properly for any candidate.

 

[NoXion]

StakerOne having a bit of a cognitive dissonance crisis, bless

What's funny is how he gets so damn angry while telling the rest of us to simmer.

 

[NoXion]

Please. You know full true well there are no safeguards against the scenarios I have cited. They do go on and you'd know that if you have ever bothered to canvass properly for any candidate.

If it happens then there should be evidence for it. I shouldn't have to rely on the word of an internet stranger with an ideological attachment to libertarian funny money.

 

[StakerOne]

Funny how your reaction is "get rid of postal voting" and not "improve the postal voting process to help ensure ballots are secret". You sure you wanna go around calling people frauds when you so obviously tip your hand?

Ballots at the polling station are very secret. A damn sight more secret than an overbearing family member watching over you as you fill in your PV ballot.

 

[NoXion]

Ballots at the polling station are very secret. A damn sight more secret than an overbearing family member watching over you as you fill in your PV ballot.

Still waiting on the evidence that this happens outside of your imagination often enough to be electorally significant.

 

[StakerOne]

If it happens then there should be evidence for it. I shouldn't have to rely on the word of an internet stranger with an ideological attachment to libertarian funny money.

Evidence for it? What's the fucking paper trail for an overbearing family member making sure someone fills out a PV the "right" way.

It's just a ballot paper with one tick on it for one party as opposed to one of the others. Of course there's no "evidence" for it.

But if you can't even bring yourself to admit that on something as emotionally charged as an election, that people won't try to lean on each other to vote one way or the other, when the ballot papers are in some house rather than a polling station with observers, then you're just on wind up.

Postal votes are shite.

You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

 

[Yossarian]

This map of which US states have all-postal voting seems like a good ad for voting by mail, even though it includes Utah

 

[NoXion]

Evidence for it? What's the fucking paper trail for an overbearing family member making sure someone fills out a PV the "right" way.

It's just a ballot paper with one tick on it for one party as opposed to one of the others. Of course there's no "evidence" for it.

But if you can't even bring yourself to admit that on something as emotionally charged as an election, that people won't try to lean on each other to vote one way or the other, when the ballot papers are in some house rather than a polling station with observers, then you're just on wind up.

Postal votes are shite.

You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

So you don't have any evidence. Thanks for confirming that you're just making shit up.

 

[StakerOne]

So you don't have any evidence. Thanks for confirming that you're just making shit up.

FACT : There is no secret ballot with postal votes when there are more than one people residing at an address.

That's something you can't escape from. You can't tell me that Hilda at number 28 deffo enjoyed a secret ballot cast, if her husband also lives there. They would both get their ballots at the same time.

 

[mojo pixy]

But they can do what they want, right? And fuck you if you don't like it. Isn't that how it goes? You muppet

 

[NoXion]

FACT : There is no secret ballot with postal votes when there are more than one people residing at an address.

That's something you can't escape from. You can't tell me that Hilda at number 28 deffo enjoyed a secret ballot cast, if her husband also lives there. They would both get their ballots at the same time.

Just because you call something "FACT" (lol) doesn't make it so. You can make up all the hypothetical scenarios you want, but without evidence you're just blowing hot air.

 

[brogdale]

I think we're all aware of some, very well reported local instances of egregious PV abuse/fraud; certainly the Electoral Commission has previously felt the need to 'educate' about potential fraud with public information clips:

 

[StakerOne]

But they can do what they want, right? And fuck you if you don't like it. Isn't that how it goes? You muppet

I'm talking about people in general. Yes as each day goes by they can do what the fuck they want.

I believe the cost of persecution / prosecution should be high.

What the fuck do you believe in? That people should be switched off by a centralised power the second they step out of line?

 

[StakerOne]

Just because you call something "FACT" (lol) doesn't make it so. You can make up all the hypothetical scenarios you want, but without evidence you're just blowing hot air.

You crack on. You're making yourself look stupid if you seriously believe that postal voter coercion isn't widespread. In my experience, it's the norm rather than the exception.

When there are multiple occupancies in a dwelling, most of the time (Like at least 75%) the whole bundle is handed to a candidate, meaning the entire household voted the same way.

The canvasser never has to bother with speaking to the wife after the husband, because the husband will give it the "Don't you worry, I'll take care of the lot of them." - 2 weeks later, there he is at the front door with a wad of PVs for the entire house.

And you're saying that there's NEVER coercion involved?

Fuck off.