Paxo v Brand starts in 5 minutes

[D'wards]

Pfft no, just gathered enough Bible knowledge from having a Catholic Nan and a non-denom school upbringing to recognise the quote

I read that as non-demon school, and thought you may be more religious than you let on...

 

[cantsin]

Have I seen a different clip to everyone else? People are talking as if some great new political thought outclassed Paxman. All I saw was a millionaire actor spouting some wishy washy new age bollocks with a large smattering of terms straight from Icke. Paxman just looked and sounded bemused.

"Things are shit and need to change". Well, yeah, thanks for that Russell. Now what?

.

can you point out what Brand, for all his faults, said there that was even vaguely 'new age' ?

Thought it was a good, honest, ranty diatribe that gave a very rare, but accessible airing to the idea that there are viable political alternatives to the rotten parliamentary system, and however abstract the idea of 'revolution' being that alternative may seem coming from a millionaire film star, he's from a working class background, and occasionally ( when he's not on his dafty spiritual mode ) connects with a wide audience in an engaging, likeable manner with some pretty convincing arguments against modern day capitalism - try naming anyone talking that kind of politics, however vague/unformed the arguments may be, who you could have said that about over the last.....50 (random number) years ?

 

[treelover]

I thought Brands final hammer home was the point about Paxman doing the ancestor thing and being upset because one of his had been a 'brass' as Brand put it and had experienced unfairness which had upset Paxman - nice simple point about how it becomes 'real' when it is happening to one of your tribe so to speak. Which is of course often the point at which people do start to get angry - its ok when the people down the road lose their job, get shafted by ATOS etc because they are lazy, undeserving etc but when you know the story and you know the person empathy and anger kick in. And I guess we are heading for the tipping point where everyone has someone close to them that has been shafted - certainly if you are part of the proletariat lumpen or otherwise.

The local radio was discussing whether there was growth and how it was affecting people in the area, they had a guy on who was in his 60's but had set up a courier business which was doing well, working 60 hours plus, it was clear the interviewer was waiting for a big diatribe about benefits, etc (he seemed to be willing it) it didn't come: instead the guy talked about his disabled son and the struggles his neighbours etc, were having, tipping point, getting there...

 

[treelover]

A damn site more entertaining than Labour's robot Owen - let me hit you with figures - Jones.

Still good, but yes, I reckon he will change his delivery now.

 

[butchersapron]

To what? Unfocused anger? Really? Why? Do you think he's competing with Brand or something?

 

[treelover]

But a part of his message was also we need a political alternative. When you hear anyone saying that, don't you want to know what, if anything, they have in mind?

I suspect Brand hasn't got that far, though at least he's not using his celebrity to just whine about the tax laws. But unless someone challenges him to flesh it out, he might be a millionaire hippy shaman self-publicising gobshite who should be ignored, or he might get more people questioning things even if he himself hasn't got much more to offer, or he might have something more substantive to say. Might turn out to be a crypto-fascist - who knows?

You're right about Paxman, but then that's who was interviewing him. If Brand had laid into him effectively for being a complacent establishment prop that might have been good too....

Did you ever watch his interview with Michael Howard where he got the man of the night to repeat the same thing thirteen times?

 

[frogwoman]

is he still on his conspiraloon bullshit?

 

[treelover]

Could Russell Brand stop clowning around and be Britain's Beppe Grillo?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/25/russell-brand-revolution-britain-beppe-grillo

Definitely, something In this, Brand is not a Jonny come lately(though who knows what happens in his private life!) he was on the mayday protests, etc. Its not my chosen route to social change, but what we have now is worse..

 

[JimW]

Wasn't grillo shown to have dodgy fash links, so maybe Brand's flirtations with Icke make the comparison apt, but wouldn't want a five star type movement to be the outcome.

 

[butchersapron]

Could he become the focal point for an authoritarian explicitly undemocratic far-right movement movement that attacks public sector workers, wants to ban strikes and privatise everything in site? I think not. Some of you lot need to calm the fuck down.


edit:And to put some meat on that, there is a long tradition of populist-comedian outsider in fast-changing italian political life - they come around every decade, see shit like ordinary-manism. In this countries political traditions, no chance. Why did you say you can see a def possibility treelover?

 

[frogwoman]

didn't he give a load of money to david icke? im sorry but that doesn't fill me with a great deal of enthusiasm the last thing we need is more distractions from the coalitions policies and a huge load of money and publicity being given to people with views which have the potential to cause serious problems for myself and people i know.

 

[treelover]

Could he become the focal point for an authoritarian explicitly undemocratic far-right movement movement that attacks public sector workers, wants to ban strikes and privatise everything in site? I think not. Some of you lot need to calm the fuck down.


edit:And to put some meat on that, there is a long tradition of populist-comedian outsider in fast-changing italian political life - they come around every decade, see shit like ordinary-manism. In this countries political traditions, no chance. Why did you say you can see a def possibility treelover?

because imo, slowly but surely politics is in a state of flux, especially amongst the young, populists could and do raise issues, etc, but of course getting any power in our FPTP system is very unlikely

 

[killer b]

Definitely, something In this

there really isnt.

 

[butchersapron]

because imo, slowly but surely politics is in a state of flux, especially amongst the young, populists could and do raise issues, etc, but of course getting any power in our FPTP system is very unlikely

That's not really any sort of reply as to why you think as you do is it? Did you notice the grilloists winning lots of seats, whilst brand said voting changes nothing? Just think things through.

 

[savoloysam]

No mention of the $2.2 million house he's just bought in the Hollywood hills in that article, I notice.

Absolute fucking hypocrite.

DO YOU VOTE????

 

[butchersapron]

Paxman is so off his arse engaged he has voted for tories, lib-dems and labour. A model of political engagement. Pity about the romanian slaves and that.

 

[frogwoman]

because imo, slowly but surely politics is in a state of flux, especially amongst the young, populists could and do raise issues, etc, but of course getting any power in our FPTP system is very unlikely

i dont think that this means this stuff is necessarily a good thing tho, he's a millionaire, how radical do you think he's really gonna be?

conspiraloon stuff really scares me for a lot of reasons, and he's given money to that sort of thing in the past afaik, if he's repudiated those views then fair enough but i suspect he hasn't, i think we could really do without more "figureheads" trying to be populist or whatever a la george galloway etc and especially any associations with that sort of shit

 

[ruffneck23]

The revolution will not be lead from above.

But it might get nudged in the right direction by them

 

[butchersapron]

Did you miss the 'revolution (in consciousness)' bit? Someone whose just forked out 2 million quid for a house and who has talked of useful/productive inequality? Where is this person going to nudge anything?

 

[treelover]

I was getting close to admiring old Oliver for his “calls it as he sees it, balls-out” rhetoric till I read about him on Wikipedia and learned that beyond this brilliant 8 Mile-style takedown of corrupt politicians he was a right arsehole; starving and murdering the Irish and generally (and surprisingly for a Roundhead) being a total square.

Er, weren't the Roundheads basically puritans?

 

[butchersapron]

With ROUND heads.

 

[Orang Utan]

Er, weren't the Roundheads basically puritans?

who are you quoting, and where from?

 

[treelover]

At this point I’d attended a few protests and I loved them. At a Liverpool dockers march, the chanting, the bristling, the rippedup paving stones and galloping police horses in Bono glasses flipped a switch in me.

he must have been at the RTS/Dockers March, can't remember any major trouble there, certainly not paving stones, then again I am not going to 'expose' someone who is inspiring people.

 

[treelover]

who are you quoting, and where from?

Sorry, its the article we are all discussing. Brand in the NS.

 

[Orang Utan]

Sorry, its the article we are all discussing. Brand in the NS.

i only got as far as the newsnight clip. that was enough

 

[butchersapron]

i only got as far as the newsnight clip. that was enough

The article is miles better if you are after something more serious.

 

[JimW]

Off topic but mention of Cromwell made me think of one of my fave quotes about him, from his physician (it says when I looked it up):

A perfect master of all the arts of dissimulation: who, turning up the whites of his eyes, and seeking the Lord with pious gestures, will weep and pray, and cant most devoutly, till an opportunity offers of dealing his dupe a knock-down blow under the short ribs.

 

[Orang Utan]

The article is miles better.

better as in more fun? or better as in enlightening?

 

[Corax]

The article is miles better if you are after something more serious.

Do you like some aspects of the article?

 

[butchersapron]

Do you like some aspects of the article?

Not really. It's filled with banalities about alienation and engagement, soaked through with Ickean wake-upness and not offering much practically.