Paxo v Brand starts in 5 minutes

[Hollis]

My estimation of Brand has gone up considerably, though I shall not be delving into his 'booky wook' andy time soon.

Its really quite a good read.. the second one is abit shit (apparently).

 

[DrRingDing]

All the fucking Trots on my Facebook feed

Same, same.

Demanding corporations pay tax is hardly revolutionary.

 

[Yata]

he can be as witty and verbose as he wants, its all for self promotion and he's just a smarter laurie penny at the end of the day and yes hes still best pals with icke

 

[LiamO]

Reading the new statesman and watching newsnight?

reading facebook and watching Youtube.

 

[tendril]

I used to be a JW when I was youing (didn't really believe so left at first opportunity) and that picture is scarily like the ones that the JWs use to illustrate their magazines (albeit with less flipping of the bird and soundsystems)

 

[ruffneck23]

'That 'picture is the inlay / album fold out from the prodigys ' music for the jilted generation'

 

[ruffneck23]

If people are putting their faith in Russell Brand to spearhead their hopes and dreams of any meaningful change then we're truly fucked.

but he has a voice that we dont and a very loud one. Would you rather nothing was said unless its by someone you deem acceptable? This isnt to do with wether he is funny or a cunt, the fact is he is saying what a great deal of people are thinking, and this can only be a good thing...

 

[Geri]

but he has a voice that we dont and a very loud one. Would you rather nothing was said unless its by someone you deem acceptable? This isnt to do with wether he is funny or a cunt, the fact is he is saying what a great deal of people are thinking, and this can only be a good thing...

The revolution will not be lead from above.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I used to be a JW when I was youing (didn't really believe so left at first opportunity) and that picture is scarily like the ones that the JWs use to illustrate their magazines (albeit with less flipping of the bird and soundsystems)

 

[poului]

Would you rather nothing was said unless its by someone you deem acceptable?

How far are you willing to take this principle? Icke's already been mentioned.

What's more ridiculous is that you assume it "can only be a good thing" when a wealthy celeb parrots others in the name of dissent despite clearly being full of shit about it.

 

[DexterTCN]

How far are you willing to take this principle? Icke's already been mentioned.

What's more ridiculous is that you assume it "can only be a good thing" when a wealthy celeb parrots others in the name of dissent despite clearly being full of shit about it.

Icke's only been mentioned to tar Brand with association though.

 

[cesare]

That Newsnight clip was hilarious I haven't read the NS article but presumably Brand's now attempting to join the NS Commentariat as the Owen Jones equivalent for the people's revolution?

 

[xes]

Is he still mates with David Icke?

don't know about Icke, but there's a recent interview of him with Alex "I'M NOT SHOUTING" Jones floating about on youtube.

 

[poului]

Icke's only been mentioned to tar Brand with association though.

Still not answering the question. Would you be so supportive of someone like David Icke if he was on Newsnight merely because he said a few things along the lines of "greed is bad/people power" etc?

 

[ruffneck23]

How far are you willing to take this principle? Icke's already been mentioned.

What's more ridiculous is that you assume it "can only be a good thing" when a wealthy celeb parrots others in the name of dissent despite clearly being full of shit about it.

so youre saying its better that nothing is said ?

i

 

[poului]

so youre saying its better that nothing is said ?

Plenty of stuff's being said all the time.

What are you saying, ruffneck?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Icke's only been mentioned to tar Brand with association though.

No, Icke has been mentioned because Brand is rather obviously spouting some of his crap.

 

[killer b]

WAKE UP

 

[butchersapron]

Don't underestimate them. My lot are hardly ivory towered students - most of them start with zero qualifications and come on the course as its one of the less unpleasant alternatives. Its a hard slog getting them to read anything but I put this on the course FB page alongside the NS article and it has been the key debate of the day. Fair enough its not especially sophisticated but we are giving them Marx, Gramsci et al from the pre determined curriculum and stuff like this does help them to catch onto ideas. Better said - albeit by a bit of a dandy - than not. Acorns and oak trees and all that.

There's two aspects to this - the uses that can be made of Brand's drivel and the drivel itself. If you, or anyone is making productive use of his millionaire hippy shit to spark off debate, ask questions, identify problems within it and so on, the great. What a lot of people appear to be doing though is confusing the justified laughter at his drivel for writing off the possibility of doing the former, of doing what you're doing - when they're not. And i often find hidden within the idea that you shouldn't laugh at his drivel a belief that politically you can only communicate with others through mangled incoherent affective nonsense because, after all, they're a bit thick and confused aren't they and only respond emotionally. I think you can take lessons from the way that Brand did get a message across without endorsing that message (and the potential for productive misreading also exists, turning his hippy 'revolution in consciousness' into something far more dangerous) - that's something we can learn from.

 

[poului]

I'm personally holding out for the Guardian to come out with a swanky line chart detailing the "Brand Effect".

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

 

[ruffneck23]

What are you saying, ruffneck?

why does matter what i am saying, we are talking about RB and paxman..

 

[Brechin Sprout]

There's two aspects to this - the uses that can be made of Brand's drivel and the drivel itself. If you, or anyone is making productive use of his millionaire hippy shit to spark off debate, ask questions, identify problems within it and so on, the great. What a lot of people appear to be doing though is confusing the justified laughter at his drivel for wiring off the possibility of doing the former, of doing what you're doing - when they're not. And i often find hidden within the idea that you shouldn't laugh at his drivel a belief that politically you can only communicate with others through mangled incoherent affective nonsense because, after all, they're a bit thick and confused aren't they and only respond emotionally. I think you can take lessons from the way that Brand did get a message across without endorsing that message (and the potential for productive misreading also exists, turning his hippy 'revolution in consciousness' into something far more dangerous) - that's something we can learn from.

If the choice is between Brand's "drivel" and your hectoring, arrogant superiority, I know who people would more likely listen to and learn from. But, for you, the ideas of the working class are already fully formed and coherent, no need for any change. oh dear.

 

[butchersapron]

If the choice is between Brand's "drivel" and your hectoring, arrogant superiority, I know who people would more likely listen to and learn from. But, for you, the ideas of the working class are already fully formed and coherent, no need for any change. oh dear.

Aside from the fact that i believe no such thing and have said no such thing - and that in the post you quote i specifically identify a process of collective questioning in order to reach collective conclusions. Whereas you, appear to think they need an external helping hand from you and others in order to reach the 'fully formed and coherent' ideas that you have already worked out in advance for them.

 

[poului]

If the choice is between Brand's "drivel" and your hectoring, arrogant superiority, I know who people would more likely listen to and learn from. But, for you, the ideas of the working class are already fully formed and coherent, no need for any change. oh dear.

Behold the "Brand Effect"!

 

[billy_bob]

I thought Brand was very good and Paxman was extremely poor. In fact I don't think I have seen Paxman so bad. I generally like him and his questioning but he was quite clearly missing the point. He probably knew he was too, but it was a difficult argument as Brand wasn't really standing for much other than a call for change. Paxman's focus on Brands voting made him look a bit daft because Brand had basically answered him straight away. I imagine Paxo wasn't used to getting answers straight, he is usually gunning on politicians with something to hide.

Sadly Paxman came across as the bell end, which, against Brand, must feel a bit sore.

My estimation of Brand has gone up considerably, though I shall not be delving into his 'booky wook' andy time soon.

I agree, tentatively. Brand gradually seems to be putting his gift of the gab to better use - we'll see where he takes it. But Paxman could have done a better job of forcing him to put a bit more substance into it if he'd been less narrowly focussed on the voting question.

 

[butchersapron]

I agree, tentatively. Brand gradually seems to be putting his gift of the gab to better use - we'll see where he takes it. But Paxman could have done a better job of forcing him to put a bit more substance into it if he'd been less narrowly focussed on the voting question.

The lack of substance isn't a problem given the message was essentially i'm angry and want everyone else to be angry to, here's why (which appears to have worked). And the very last thing anyone on our side needs is someone like paxman helping put substance into anything. He and people like him are part of the problem.

 

[chasbo zelena]

He's beginning to sound a bit like Eric Idle's watery tart guy.

 

[killer b]

fwiw i quite like brand & his nonsense, and think on the balance it's probably better to have him talking about this shit than not. but that doesn't mean we have to just accept it uncritically, and not point out the problematic parts - the conspiralunacy, the wooly thinking & lack of actual politics. it isn't a zero sum equation, all or nothing.

 

[DotCommunist]

of course the real issue here is clubbing together to get paxman some replacement blades for his mach 3