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Paxo v Brand starts in 5 minutes

I thought Brand was very good and Paxman was extremely poor. In fact I don't think I have seen Paxman so bad. I generally like him and his questioning but he was quite clearly missing the point. He probably knew he was too, but it was a difficult argument as Brand wasn't really standing for much other than a call for change. Paxman's focus on Brands voting made him look a bit daft because Brand had basically answered him straight away. I imagine Paxo wasn't used to getting answers straight, he is usually gunning on politicians with something to hide.

Sadly Paxman came across as the bell end, which, against Brand, must feel a bit sore.

My estimation of Brand has gone up considerably, though I shall not be delving into his 'booky wook' andy time soon.
 
I thought Brands final hammer home was the point about Paxman doing the ancestor thing and being upset because one of his had been a 'brass' as Brand put it and had experienced unfairness which had upset Paxman - nice simple point about how it becomes 'real' when it is happening to one of your tribe so to speak. Which is of course often the point at which people do start to get angry - its ok when the people down the road lose their job, get shafted by ATOS etc because they are lazy, undeserving etc but when you know the story and you know the person empathy and anger kick in. And I guess we are heading for the tipping point where everyone has someone close to them that has been shafted - certainly if you are part of the proletariat lumpen or otherwise.
 
butchersapron said:
Everyone else and the left. They won't embrace me and my wonderful message because they are shit and traitors. That's what he said and what you just endorsed.
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You're reading that through very jaded eyes IMO.

There's a lot to like in that article. And stuff that I disagree with as well. And then there's the 'lizard' things from previous work...

But instead of focusing on the areas of agreement, it's the habit of many to just casually nod to them - "yeah, of course" - and then zero in on the points that diverge. It's not a new idea invented by brand, it's become an adage. Which, to me, suggests that there may be at least a kernel of truth to it.

ETA: Also, he wasn't calling anyone else a traitor anyway. He was talking about being treated a traitor (loosely) himself.
 
poului said:
If people are putting their faith in Russell Brand to spearhead their hopes and dreams of any meaningful change then we're truly fucked.
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i dont think anyone is doing that. how many times have you heard anyone having a go the way he did on bbc tv. i can barely think of one. its just makes a nice change is all. a lot of people who feel completely disenfranchised from all elements of public life, especially tv, all of a sudden felt like they were represented for 10mins, and in a passionate way. The reaction to it just goes to show the potential.

this is where a good orator makes a big difference. you'll have to forgive me for mentioning martin luther king jr in the same context, but mlk was only a small part of the civil rights movement, but he was a fantastic orator, and that can play such a valuable part, particularly in the mad media age we live in.

its an old-fashioned technique thats lost somewhat today i think. I heard Michael Albert enthuse about 1920s/30s public speakers and how organisers would be on their soap box day after day and really hone their craft. Doing stand up is like that, as is being a preacher (in the case of MLK). I think George Galloway used to soap box on the Glasgow streets from a young age too (or is that one of his yarns?)

Partly what was impressive about the RB interview was the quickness of the comebacks (ive seen some bitter people complaining it was all staged and scripted) - for someone like me who can be a little slow it comes over very well.

RB doesnt want to be the leader of anything - i think he's very aware of his limitations - he's just using his voice and platform, and fair play to him for doing that. Nothing wrong with rabble rousing - the rabble like to be roused!
 
ska invita said:
i dont think anyone is doing that. how many times have you heard anyone having a go the way he did on bbc tv. i can barely think of one. its just makes a nice change is all. a lot of people who feel completely disenfranchised from all elements of public life, especially tv, all of a sudden felt like they were represented for 10mins, and in a passionate way. The reaction to it just goes to show the potential.

this is where a good orator makes a big difference. you'll have to forgive me for mentioning martin luther king jr in the same context, but mlk was only a small part of the civil rights movement, but he was a fantastic orator, and that can play such a valuable part, particularly in the mad media age we live in.

its an old-fashioned technique thats lost somewhat today i think. I heard Michael Albert enthuse about 1920s/30s public speakers and how organisers would be on their soap box day after day and really hone their craft. Doing stand up is like that, as is being a preacher (in the case of MLK). I think George Galloway used to soap box on the Glasgow streets from a young age too (or is that one of his yarns?)

Partly what was impressive about the RB interview was the quickness of the comebacks (ive seen some bitter people complaining it was all staged and scripted) - for someone like me who can be a little slow it comes over very well.

RB doesnt want to be the leader of anything - i think he's very aware of his limitations - he's just using his voice and platform, and fair play to him for doing that. Nothing wrong with rabble rousing - the rabble like to be roused!
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Yep, truly fucked.
 
He spoke a few home truths. The bastard child Jack - What extraordinary rendition? - Straw was on the radio last week defending Mitchell. That sums it up for me as if I needed any summing up.
 
Corax said:
You're reading that through very jaded eyes IMO.
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:hmm:
Corax said:
But it won't be embraced, for a reason he briefly addresses in that same article.
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fwiw: brand can be very perceptive, and has a fine way of putting across his views - both the newsnight interview and the article were enjoyable. but what have we got at the end of it? erm. change your perceptions, man? WAKE UP? we need a NEW paradigm? seems like a bit of a waste to me. if he'd bothered sticking some politics in at the end there it might have actually made a difference. as it is, it's just an enjoyable rant.
 
killer b said:
:hmm:
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Fair cop, guv.
killer b said:
fwiw: brand can be very perceptive, and has a fine way of putting across his views - both the newsnight interview and the article were enjoyable. but what have we got at the end of it? erm. change your perceptions, man? WAKE UP? we need a NEW paradigm? seems like a bit of a waste to me. if he'd bothered sticking some politics in at the end there it might have actually made a difference. as it is, it's just an enjoyable rant.
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On its own yeah. But it will have engaged a fair few people into thinking of 'the left' as something other than the media/RW stereotype of unemployed soap-dodging crusties. He's been building to this stuff for a while, and constructing a platform. Ideally, he'll work out how best to use it, but only time will tell.

And as he tells Paxman, he's not claiming to have the solutions. He just wants people to recognise the problem - which would be a step in the right direction.
 
It’s been said that: “The right seeks converts and the left seeks traitors.” This moral superiority that is peculiar to the left is a great impediment to momentum
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Corax said:
Most I can say on that is "possibly". Folks our age? Probably not. Younguns who are unfixed in their political opinions, pondering Daily Mailesque media headlines and wondering who's to blame - maybe.
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it just looks like preaching to the converted to me mate. it's gone semi-viral today, but who's sharing it? same people who share those 38 degree petitions, retweet owen jones and who urged us to vote lib dem in 2010. the kids seem unmoved as far as i can tell.
 
butchersapron said:
Reading the new statesman and watching newsnight?
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Don't underestimate them. My lot are hardly ivory towered students - most of them start with zero qualifications and come on the course as its one of the less unpleasant alternatives. Its a hard slog getting them to read anything but I put this on the course FB page alongside the NS article and it has been the key debate of the day. Fair enough its not especially sophisticated but we are giving them Marx, Gramsci et al from the pre determined curriculum and stuff like this does help them to catch onto ideas. Better said - albeit by a bit of a dandy - than not. Acorns and oak trees and all that.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
Have I seen a different clip to everyone else? People are talking as if some great new political thought outclassed Paxman. All I saw was a millionaire actor spouting some wishy washy new age bollocks with a large smattering of terms straight from Icke. Paxman just looked and sounded bemused.

"Things are shit and need to change". Well, yeah, thanks for that Russell. Now what?
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I think I saw the same clip as you but I turned it off halfway through.
 
DotCommunist said:
oh that was good. I don't usually like brand but he had paxman right over there and made a few good points
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I'd go no further than that, but it was well worth a watch. Good to see someone so quick thinking leaving Paxman half speechless ...

Paxman's just lazy and bored .... especially so in that clip.

What's this about Brand being a conspiraloon tagger alonger though? :hmm:
 
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