Or maybe a BNP troll?
Paramilitary Style Group Protests In Luton
- Thread starter greenman
- Start date
Or maybe a BNP troll?
he's a fucking misguided weirdo whatever he is
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Well, you know, the people who were there to receive abuse were the ones parading through the damn streets in support of the institution that killed both Brits and Iraqis, as if they owned the place.
And that's what they were doing. Whether the families of the people they killed were fucked up enough to believe that the killers of their loved ones were really great, I don't know, but they shouldn't be supported in that belief if they were.
do you think they were there out of choice?
do you think they were in iraq out of choice for that matter
come on fridgey, your smarter than this
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
You're missing the entire point. Come on, you're smarter than this. The parade was in support of the institution.
Christ all fucking mighty I never thought I'd be saying "actually military parades might not be about being nice to soldiers who've had a hard time" ffs. Also, when Gordon Brown says how great a job the military does, he doesn't mean it.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
This appears to be localised and despite your dire predictions, that usually turn out to be bollocks anyway, is unlikely to, thanks to the good sense of most people in the UK.
The main impact of those muslim protesters was to increase support for those parades.
And your point that "the parade was in support of the institution" yes but do you really think that was all that it was about? Many of the people clapping the parade would have been against military intervention in iraq and afghanistan and so would some of the soldiers families.
i guess were both missing each others points
i understand what you mean, but to me its about pure aesthetics
those guys just got back in the country, theyre on that parade quite possibly thinking about their best mate who was blown to pieces in front of them, there may be family in the crowd whove lost a loved one, even if not all but the most experienced (or truly psychopathic) soldiers will be experiencing severe post traumatic stress disorder
regardless of the political motivations behind the parade, its just unpleasant, bad taste, poor form, call it what you will, to jeer and mock them
on a wider level, its politically disasterous for the anti war movement, muslim or not, as events and the coverage of it has shown
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Their polo shirts have 'no surrender to al-qaeda' on the badge, which to me echoes the 'no surrender to the IRA' chant that the far-right in the firms used to sing (and still do occasionally).
I think some of them were wearing jeans made by Levi's and Nike trainers.
I would expect these companies to immediately release press statements distancing themselves from football hooligans so that we can shift the gaze of our self righteous judgmentalism to other targets.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
This was not some squaddy in the pub .This was a military parade. Armed, with brass bands playing, marching in formation through the streets. It was a patriotic celebration of a war that noone wanted.
This was part of a general move towards patriotic displays that we are increasingly obliged to celebrate. It was a typical attempt to distract people from opposition to a war that should never have happened.
Franklly the sheep like manner in which many people just roll over in the face of these kind of patriotic events is troubling to say the least.
The abuse that I am receiving on this thread is also so so typical. no different from the abuse that those opposed to patriotic jingoism have received throughout history. You will be sending me white feathers next.
Let me spell this out one more time. This war was illegal. This war was entered into with lies and false information against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This war was entered to satisfy the most right wing president the US has ever seen.This war was a violation of the sovereignty of a nation that had done us no harm. These parades are an attempt to shroud those facts with blind jingoism and it's very sad that you fall for it time and time again.
And you expect people to wave flags and applaud British troops when they return from that war.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel
dylans
overlord of all acorns
You are seriously out of line. Pack it in. Argue with what I say and stop throwing offensive abuse to cover up your lack of an argument. You have far more in common with the BNP. You share their "offence" that Muslims dare to demonstrate against this show of patriotic crap. You share the BNPs belief that we should salute "our brave soldiers". You, my friend, are the fascist apologist, not me. The BNP would agree with every word you have written.
nightbreed
Im Bored
FM that is strictly NOT true for this Luton demo .. this was a small / tiny group of ultrafundie islamists on a wind up ..
why are they not scum? are the taliban not scum?
FM you make it sound so easy .. next march you go and picket it then
jesus you are pig headed .. we ( here on urban / this thread) all fucking know all of this ^^^^
the point is how to change this .. and people are arguing having islamofascists ( or jihidis who support war on all levels ) picketing it was utterly counter productive .. and the gig on sunday proves our point absolutely
dennisr
the acceptable face
apparently not - only dylan is 'consistant', great white hope that he is - the rest of us are lining up with the enemy
*yawns*
dylans
overlord of all acorns
And I am arguing that a patriotic military parade is a legitimate target for an anti war demonstration.
dennisr
the acceptable face
and other folk are arguing that this particular demonstation was counter-productive. In fact that was the intention of the 'protesters'. In fact the resulting reaction proves this point.
your response being to accuse us all of being apologists for war and imperialism - repetatively. Which was about as counter-productive in putting across your arguement as the idiots you are uncritically defending.
thats fine we can run around in pointless circles forever if you like.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He and others have also been making posts conflating different questions and issues as well. It's not good them just repeating that the original muslim fundies have the right to protest at the parade - of course they do. No one is denying that - what they're doing is asking questions about the effectivness, the motivations and the and likely outcome of that protest. That's what a large part of politics actually is - not just saying that because it's someone right to do something then you support them doing it and their cause - that way you end up supporting everything legal (inlcuding BNP demos etc) and have no politics at all. It's to do with asking critical questions and evaluating forces/arguments etc. The right to protest issue is a total red herring. It's perfectly possible to support and argue for a right to something without arguing that that right should be excercised free of all scrutiny or collective responsibility.
Which leads onto the next issue - the argument that these poor fundies were forced into this and acting on this basis by the failure of the left to protest. Of course, for all but the utterly naive the idea that these people would be opposing the protest on a different basis than religious fundamentalism if the left appeared is a joke. The left being there would chnage nothing for these people. Not a thing. because their politics are not of the left, they're explicitly opposed to the left - in fact some of these type of people were involved in the stalking and threatening of Geoge Galloway and Respect in east london whne they were seen as encroaching on the fundies turf. That's their attitude to the left - it's not the dependence that some here seem to imagine. It's outright hostility.
Their game was simple, and it was based on the left not being there - that was the whole point, to draw lines on racial/cultural lines and force people into choosing one side or the other. They got exactly what they wanted.
FFS, the usual ill-informed inflammatory bollocks that this type of thread drags out!
The initial demo was from a small, relatively isolated group of fanatics. While some of the placards and chants might be constured as offensive to some, they would be water off a ducks back to virtually all squaddies. The main thing about that demo was that it was peaceful.
There was an organised counter-demo from the usual knuckle-dragging types that also dragged in a few passers by that were alot more aggressive, hence the arrests of some of that group.
There was a protest (supposedly peaceful) from a group 'supporting our boys'
. That was hijacked by another group of knuckle-draggers that terrorised shoppers and shop owners and caused criminal damage. Hence more arrests.
Incidentally the main mosque in the town was also firebombed a couple of weeks ago.
The parades aren't about 'jingoistic patriotism' or any of that balls, that's reading far too much into it, certainly as far as the unit and it's men are concerned. For them it's a method of unwinding and feeling a bit bit better now that they are back. It's the media and political groups that make gushing noises about 'our boys' and it gets picked up and amplified in places like U75. It makes it into a far more ominous sounding and threatening thing than it really is.
Of course any group should have the right to protest peacefully, and anti-war protests are some of the most passionate because of the issues involved. As a serving TA soldier and ex-reg I don't feel that I need or want these arsey thugs saying that they are doing these things in my, or my colleagues, names. They are working to their own agenda.
With regards to economic conscription, I'm sure that there is an element of that. It's obvious looking at the recent recruitment statistics, new recruitment has rocketed, though there is still a problem with retension. My experience in the REME though was that most of those guys were there for the trade and a signifciantly higher percentage of guys (compared to the infantry) were there to make a long career out of soldiering.
Next one is the role of the Armed Forces. The Army is a tool of the Government, it cannot decide which conflict it will or won't take part in. The General Staff can advise the Cabinet on what it thinks is achieveable and what the cost will be. They can also query the legality (as it did before the Iraq invasion), but if it's decided that the orders are legal it CANNOT refuse them, and that works all of the way down the chain of command. No one can join and say that they'll fight in one place but not another. If they don't like it they can get out (sometimes not as easy as that sounds!).
The initial demo was from a small, relatively isolated group of fanatics. While some of the placards and chants might be constured as offensive to some, they would be water off a ducks back to virtually all squaddies. The main thing about that demo was that it was peaceful.
There was an organised counter-demo from the usual knuckle-dragging types that also dragged in a few passers by that were alot more aggressive, hence the arrests of some of that group.
There was a protest (supposedly peaceful) from a group 'supporting our boys'
. That was hijacked by another group of knuckle-draggers that terrorised shoppers and shop owners and caused criminal damage. Hence more arrests.Incidentally the main mosque in the town was also firebombed a couple of weeks ago.
The parades aren't about 'jingoistic patriotism' or any of that balls, that's reading far too much into it, certainly as far as the unit and it's men are concerned. For them it's a method of unwinding and feeling a bit bit better now that they are back. It's the media and political groups that make gushing noises about 'our boys' and it gets picked up and amplified in places like U75. It makes it into a far more ominous sounding and threatening thing than it really is.
Of course any group should have the right to protest peacefully, and anti-war protests are some of the most passionate because of the issues involved. As a serving TA soldier and ex-reg I don't feel that I need or want these arsey thugs saying that they are doing these things in my, or my colleagues, names. They are working to their own agenda.
With regards to economic conscription, I'm sure that there is an element of that. It's obvious looking at the recent recruitment statistics, new recruitment has rocketed, though there is still a problem with retension. My experience in the REME though was that most of those guys were there for the trade and a signifciantly higher percentage of guys (compared to the infantry) were there to make a long career out of soldiering.
Next one is the role of the Armed Forces. The Army is a tool of the Government, it cannot decide which conflict it will or won't take part in. The General Staff can advise the Cabinet on what it thinks is achieveable and what the cost will be. They can also query the legality (as it did before the Iraq invasion), but if it's decided that the orders are legal it CANNOT refuse them, and that works all of the way down the chain of command. No one can join and say that they'll fight in one place but not another. If they don't like it they can get out (sometimes not as easy as that sounds!).
Which I suppose does lead to the question where were the left ? Here we had what seemed, at least to my untrained eye, a demonstration by predominantely white working class people and without a BNP or other recognisable far right symbol in sight. Prior to the march the organiser had stressed that racists were not welcome. All good.
It strikes me that once again the British left, when faced with the sort of active expression of working class anger that we have seen several incidents ofover the last 12 months, just melt away and are no where to be seen.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Don't project your simplistic assumptions onto me, there's a good boy.
No, I've talked to some of the people of Derry.
So good of you to generalise inaccurately, because it allows me to take you to task.
A small number of soldiers from the Parachute regt committed the atrocity you're referring to, and they were aided by the complicity of both the British state and by British army brass. To extrapolate from that event that all troops are cold-blooded murderers is the work of a piss-drinking pygmy-brained cretin.
The good people of Derry have always been able to differentiate between the Parachute regt and the British army in general, why do you have difficulty doing so?
The British army say the same about your mother.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
car to advertsie your wares a little more honestly?
please describe you knowledge of luton and how you'd know this to be a vaild statement about lutons asian population.
What is the average luton muslim like then btw?
Who are the other luton racists?
Do you think that as one of the last refugees of the BNP and indeed C18 this area of the uk is known for it's racist and racailly motiveated attacks and actions over the years...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The last refuge of the BNP? Eh? And, of course, C18! 
dylans
overlord of all acorns
A few bad apples? We've heard that before.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/nov/08/media.pressandpublishing
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