Paramilitary Style Group Protests In Luton

[ViolentPanda]

Last time I looked there was no conscription and becoming a soldier was a career move, like the police.

What a load of shit-scented weak-kneed bollocks.
Becoming a soldier is rarely a "career move", however many skills you pick up if you go into a regiment like REME. Most of the time, for my generation and every one that's followed it since (so that's the last 30 years, give or take) enlistment has been about economic necessity, about taking the only job you can get your hands on because there's fuck-all else around, despite what bleating liberals say to the contrary. We may not have state-sanctioned conscription, but economic conscription is alive and well.

All this "brave boys" shit is just more jingoistic crap. Fools, you fall for it every time. George Orwell is right. People are malleable.

The "brave boys" schtick is a media representation that attempts to co-opt a sentiment based on relief for other purposes. It's interesting that you make the liberal mistake of assuming that people are at fault, rather than questioning the structures and the discourse that allows the media free rein to make such false representations.

 

[TAE]

who are you talking too? cos i canlt see anyone who thinks this

It's the impression I get from people quoted in the media who were shocked that anyone would dare disrupt the parade.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The squaddies are the ones who did the actual invading and killing and taking over the country.

You don't appear to have an over-keen idea of how modern warfare works.

 

[ViolentPanda]

except the economic kind.

Many people aren't too keen to accept the "economic conscription" argument. It means acknowledging the distasteful fact that sometimes the military life is the only viable option for people.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The "brave boys" schtick is a media representation that attempts to co-opt a sentiment based on relief for other purposes. It's interesting that you make the liberal mistake of assuming that people are at fault, rather than questioning the structures and the discourse that allows the media free rein to make such false representations.

It's more than the media though; the actual military, as an organisation, promotes it relentlessly, as well as assorted other groups who find it convenient to attach themselves to the image.

 

[ViolentPanda]

We have a professional army. Its a career move. Like our brave police. Fuck em. They know what they are doing.

I just thought to myself "I wonder if he'd have the bottle to say that to a squaddie's face?", but I reckon the answer to that is obvious.

The image of starving proles forced to take the kings penny makes my heart bleed.

Anyone who could spout the ill-informed shite that you have doesn't have a heart worthy of the name.

The British army are the attack dogs of the British state. Victims my arse. Ask the people of Derry about our "brave troops"

Actually, my verbose but ignorant friend, it's the police that are the "attack dogs" of the state. The army has quite a few more constitutional safeguards preventing it from doing the states' work.
As for the people of Derry, been there, asked them, same as I asked the people in the bit of west Belfast that I got blown up in. Oddly for your argument, most people I've talked to about the six counties in the last 25 years reserve their antipathy for the British state, rather than the British army.

All this "our boys" crap is simply jingoism pure and simple. It is amazing how people fall for it every time.

Some people fall for it, some don't, others feel superior by sounding off about how people are gullible and fall for it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

My heart bleeds for them.

If you had any idea what you were talking about, and if you had a heart, it would bleed.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's the impression I get from people quoted in the media who were shocked that anyone would dare disrupt the parade.

Talk to most squaddies about parades, and most of 'em would probably offer to chip in for any disruption.
Parades for returners used to be about the families being able to see their loved ones returning hale and hearty, but the media and the brass have always liked to spin stuff to their own purposes.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's more than the media though; the actual military, as an organisation, promotes it relentlessly, as well as assorted other groups who find it convenient to attach themselves to the image.

Hence me mentioning the "structures and the discourse".

 

[durruti02]

It _was_ an anti-war protest, it was protesting about the war - one might say that it was an inappropriate one but that doesn't make it not an anti-ward protest.

A parade is not the same as a funeral. Funerals are personal to the people concerned (or rather, their families). A parade is something very different, it's about celebrating the regiment and displaying it to the populace.

sorry but i do not think it was anti war .. the people behind it weer NOT anti war .. they are anti-western and islamo fascists .. it was simply a classic provocation designed to wind up and divide and bait the british nutty boys into todays idiot action .. and then the islamo scum will go to the muslim kids hey look they are all nazis .. etc etc etc etc

yes i know it was a parade .. but people had died in that regiment afaicr .. there were people there who were grieving relatives .. so wrong time and place .. want to demonstrate? go outside the army recruitment office

 

[durruti02]

Using the term 'islamofascist' doesn't assist your argument.

Islamists as you know come in a large variety from peaceful political reformists to conservatives and finally violent jihadists.

er yes .. and THAT is the point .. the Luton demo were NOT ordinary muslims but islamofascists or if you want 'violent jihaists'

 

[durruti02]

It's the impression I get from people quoted in the media who were shocked that anyone would dare disrupt the parade.

this is urban75 not the media

 

[durruti02]

If you had any idea what you were talking about, and if you had a heart, it would bleed.

nods head in agreement / sympathy etc

 

[FridgeMagnet]

sorry but i do not think it was anti war .. the people behind it weer NOT anti war .. they are anti-western and islamo fascists .. it was simply a classic provocation designed to wind up and divide and bait the british nutty boys into todays idiot action .. and then the islamo scum will go to the muslim kids hey look they are all nazis .. etc etc etc etc

yes i know it was a parade .. but people had died in that regiment afaicr .. there were people there who were grieving relatives .. so wrong time and place .. want to demonstrate? go outside the army recruitment office

No, the parade should never have taken place at all. The absolute last thing that should ever have happened was celebrating the organisation that sent these guys over to support killing a bunch of other people and taking over their country, and also resulted in many of them getting killed themselves. Makes me quite angry just thinking about it to be honest. The soldiers are the victims of the state and the military.

 

[durruti02]

No, the parade should never have taken place at all. The absolute last thing that should ever have happened was celebrating the organisation that sent these guys over to support killing a bunch of other people and taking over their country, and also resulted in many of them getting killed themselves. Makes me quite angry just thinking about it to be honest. The soldiers are the victims of the state and the military.

FM, WE all agree it should have never took place .. the issue is how to stop these things and if we could or should have demonstrated .. i just think on balance a anti demo would have had to have been VERY carefully planned .. as i say i think THEY have us on things like this .. i doubt whether a Quaker demo would have got the same reaction .. the reason this one did was cos it was publicised before as it was a provocation by al muj

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f18/anti-war-demo-luton-22738/

 

[liggly]

Video of the demo .

 

[Athos]

I woudl also expect Luton Town FC to eplicitly and practically distance itself from these cretins ASAP. That they won't is rather sad.

You're wrong.

Disappointingly, the news of the trouble in Luton town centre yesterday, Sunday 24th May, highlighted a small number of anonymous individuals wearing clothing that included the Luton Town FC club crest.

In no uncertain terms, Luton Town Football Club would like to point out that it had no involvement in the trouble yesterday and would like to disassociate itself from it completely and from those individuals wearing the Club's crest.

The Club is disgusted that any individual would choose to use the Club's image in such a situation. Luton Town is not a political company and, by the very nature of its business, has a responsibility to represent and embrace its entire community.

 

[durruti02]

http://forums.isla micaw ake ning.com/f18/bnp-march-luton-today-24981/

 

[audiotech]

er yes .. and THAT is the point .. the Luton demo were NOT ordinary muslims but islamofascists or if you want 'violent jihaists'

Didn't express any violence on that protest even when they were under attack?

They are of course now known to the police.

What these Islamists are for is essentially a caliphated utopia, thus impossible and unlikely to garner much support. I cannot see any connection to any notion of fascism.

Perhaps you would enlighten me to the similarities with fascism?

 

[durruti02]

Didn't express any violence on that protest even when they were under attack?

They are of course now known to the police.

What these Islamists are for is essentially a caliphated utopia, thus impossible and unlikely to garner much support. I cannot see any connection to any notion of fascism.

Perhaps you would enlighten me to the similarities with fascism?

fascism is totalitarianism and permanant war .. so these scum fit the bill exactly

why do you say utopia instead of dystopia? you like the idea of talibanitopia?

 

[dylans]

If you had any idea what you were talking about, and if you had a heart, it would bleed.

Your patriotic credentials are very impressive.

You have talked to the people of Derry? Ask them about bloody sunday when our brave troops massacred unarmed demonstrators in cold blood.

Fuck the British army.

 

[smokedout]

Your patriotic credentials are very impressive.

You have talked to the people of Derry? Ask them about bloody sunday when our brave troops massacred unarmed demonstrators in cold blood.

Fuck the British army.

grow the fuck up eh

 

[FridgeMagnet]

FM, WE all agree it should have never took place .. the issue is how to stop these things and if we could or should have demonstrated .. i just think on balance a anti demo would have had to have been VERY carefully planned .. as i say i think THEY have us on things like this .. i doubt whether a Quaker demo would have got the same reaction .. the reason this one did was cos it was publicised before as it was a provocation by al muj

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f18/anti-war-demo-luton-22738/

Provocation? People are coming on these demos because they're sickened by the war and this sort of public display resulting from it, and I can't disagree there - in fact I actively agree.

 

[cantsin]

er yes .. and THAT is the point .. the Luton demo were NOT ordinary muslims but islamofascists or if you want 'violent jihaists'

or 'Islamo Scum ' as you then put it - very helpful !

 

[smokedout]

Provocation? People are coming on these demos because they're sickened by the war and this sort of public display resulting from it, and I can't disagree there - in fact I actively agree.

so target the people responsible, not a bunch of squaddies and their families whove been dragged into this mess

whether extreme islamists (and i dont use the term islamo-fash, given that fascism is actually a coherent economic system and nothing to do with militant/extreme islamism) or poncy quakers, actions like this are entirely counter-productive, mistargeted and ultimately just a little bit unpleasant

its not about support our boys jingoism, its about not attacking the very people who are equally victims of this war as anyone else

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The parade was organised by, and served the interest of, precisely the people responsible.

 

[treelover]

the thing is there were only about 20 in all on the demo against the troops, the knobs had been leafleting the mosques for days without success. Unfortunatley, anyone who reads local fora could see this coming: in my home town there have posts about rising tension and there has been major trouble in a local school , with asian parents organising a sort of protest outside after attacks and then some retaliation. Friends in Keighley talk of pub talk of just waiting for a spark'

This is serious stuff, so what next? the left is not well placed to intervene nor these days are the unions, the young asian lads won't tolerate it either, nor should they.

 

[treelover]

btw, is Dylans in Workers Power, FR/FI or something?

 

[audiotech]

fascism is totalitarianism and permanant war .. so these scum fit the bill exactly

why do you say utopia instead of dystopia? you like the idea of talibanitopia?

Obviously not.

They were calling for an end to war, rather than 'permanent' war.

By denying even these protesters the right to peacefully protest, it could be said by them that by denying them this right that this itself is fascist and the road to totalitarianism no?

 

[smokedout]

The parade was organised by, and served the interest of, precisely the people responsible.

thats not the point though is it, the people on the end of the abuse were ordinary squaddies and their families and their anger is understandable, and would be equally justified no matter who had carried out the protest

that in no way excuses the masked up wankers whove jumped on it as an excuse to push a racist agenda, but the organisers of the protest, from what i can tell, were not liberal anti-war muslims, but people who are not that different from the ones on the rampage yesterday and both groups seek to foster hatred and division