Papers, please - covid passport bollocks

[Border Reiver]

But you were so the staff member didn't have a right to not divulging their health status.

Staff must declare health problems to Occupational Health. HIV status had to be declared to the appointing officer. Managers are not the public

 

[Border Reiver]

It is if they pass on covid which is a lot easier than passing on HIV and hiv isn't as fatal as covid.

Just seen on news that EU court of Human rights has ruled that a right to a private life cannot over rule a public health matter. (A case of compulsory vaccination in kids in checz Republic). So you could be on thin ice with that.

Please explain how that applies. Nevertheless an ECHR finding does not change the law. It is not enforcible, merely advice.

 

[Shechemite]

Show us an NHS policy that allows a patient to know the health status Of a member of staff.

There is no nhs policy that states that staff’s human right to privacy prevents patients knowing whether or not staff members have been vaccinated

 

[Shechemite]

One of the staff here (let’s call them Clive) has been off for two months.

I (along with another tenant) asked another member of staff if Clive was ok. This other member of staff told us Clive was recovering from an operation. We (other tenant and myself) have sent a card - via the area manager - to Clive.

Apart from the fact that this demonstrates that not everything in care is a power dynamic (as much as BR would like it to be), I’d be surprised if anyone’s human rights were breached in the incident I’ve described

 

[Border Reiver]

One of the staff here has been off for two months. I (along with another tenant) asked a separate member of staff if he was ok. They told us he was recovering from an operation. We (other tenant and myself) have sent a card - via the area manager - to the member of staff who is off due to operation and recovery.

Apart from the fact that this demonstrates that not everything in care is a power dynamic (as much as BR would like it to be), I’d be surprised if anyone’s human rights were breached

There is no right to know the health status of a staff member. If you think there is, produce your evidence.

 

[Shechemite]

There is no right to know the health status of a staff member. If you think there is, produce your evidence.

I haven’t said there is such a right. You have said there isn’t.

You have provided no evidence to support your claim.

You have instead demanded that I provide evidence for a claim I haven’t made (as you know).

 

[Border Reiver]

I haven’t said there is such a right. You have said there isn’t.

You have provided no evidence to support your claim.

You have instead demanded that I provide evidence for a claim I haven’t made (as you know).

I think you will find that a negative does not require evidence. If you think there is a right to know personal information about staff, produce the evidence.

 

[scifisam]

Staff must declare health problems to Occupational Health. HIV status had to be declared to the appointing officer. Managers are not the public

Only staff with EPP, basically surgical staff, are legally obliged to report their HIV status. Others "should," but it's not legally required.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Knowledge about vaccination status is not life threatening.

It really is, you know. Vaccinations save lives.

Going back to my dad again, one of the hardships they've faced this year is that my mum hasn't had any respite care weeks. When the care homes reopen next month, they'll be demanding tests and vaccination certificates from patients before they're allowed to enter the building. Again, if they are allowed to demand that of my dad, why is he (or his advocate) not allowed to demand to know that the staff are as safe for him as he is for them? He's the vulnerable person in this scenario, remember.

You seem to only see from the perspective of top-down power.

 

[Shechemite]

I think you will find that a negative does not require evidence. If you think there is a right to know personal information about staff, produce the evidence.

Hospital policy differs. No staff health information need be shared.

No ‘hospital policy’ (hospitals don’t have policies, providers do ) states any such policy

 

[Border Reiver]

No ‘hospital policy’ (hospitals don’t have policies, providers do ) states any such policy

Provide your evidence of any right to knowledge of staff health status.

 

[Shechemite]

I don’t need to demonstrate my ‘right’ to know. I ask them and they tell me.

 

[A380]

View attachment 262335



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Pickman's model I could have sworn you were supposed to be on ignore?

 

[Shechemite]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed Border Reiver, but HCPs who have been vaccinated have been very keen to tell people. It’s not surprising that when patients (Or whatever term) or Carers ask HCPs if they’ve been vaccinated, said HCPs are more than happy to tell them.

 

[Border Reiver]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed Border Reiver, but HCPs who have been vaccinated have been very keen to tell people. It’s not surprising that when patients (Or whatever term) or Carers ask HCPs if they’ve been vaccinated, said HCPs are more than happy to tell them.

Produce evidence of your right to know the medical status of staff.

 

[Shechemite]

BRs view of care is not just terrifyingly authoritarian, it’s also deeply, depressingly transactional. As if human interaction is nothing but a game of competing individual rights to trump each other with.

 

[Shechemite]

Produce evidence of your right to know the medical status of staff.

Why?

 

[Sue]

God, but this is dull. Not even a sealion picture for like ages.

 

[Shechemite]

God, but this is dull. Not even a sealion picture for like ages.

Are you done?

 

[Border Reiver]

BRs view of care is not just terrifyingly authoritarian, it’s also deeply, depressingly transactional. As if human interaction is nothing but a game of competing individual rights to trump each other with.

Nurses and other servers have rights to privacy.

You have no more right to know the health status of a nurse than a hairdresser, waiter, or personal trainer.

 

[IC3D]

There is no right for patients and or services users to know personal information of hcps, if someone is freindly and gives some info when asked and says so and so is having an operation he could be breaching his colleagues right to privacy or may have been told to share info to be freindly or bullshitting as the reason someone is off is personal and they do t want it shared.. most likely.

 

[A380]

Produce your evidence
Produce your evidence
Ignore
Ignore
IGNORE!

 

[mojo pixy]

OK basically, if a service user does not want to be attended by unvaccinated staff, it's up to the service provider to make sure that happens. Nobody needs to divulge anything about anyone, nobody needs coercing or compelling. It just gets organized by unit managers etc. and recorded in a care plan that person X doesn't want contact with unvaccinated staff. Under no circumstances does this mean unvaccinated staff can't be employed, it just means the service provider needs to do risk assessments, get informed consent .. and do all they can to facilitate vaccinations for everyone (staff and clients) who wants one.

I don't see how it needs to be complicated or authoritarian, and I do in fact currently work at the sharp end of this.

 

[Border Reiver]

There is no right for patients and or services users to know personal information of hcps, if someone is freindly and gives some info when asked and says so and so is having an operation he could be breaching his colleagues right to privacy or may have been told to share info to be freindly or bullshitting as the reason someone is off is personal and they do t want it shared.. most likely.

The idea that NHS users get to choose their doctors and.nurses is a myth. There may be flexibility but no right to know or choose.

 

[Border Reiver]

OK basically, if a service user does not want to be attended by unvaccinated staff, it's up to the service provider to make sure that happens. Nobody needs to divulge anything about anyone, nobody needs coercing or compelling. It just gets organized by unit managers etc. and recorded in a care plan that person X doesn't want contact with unvaccinated staff. Under no circumstances does this mean unvaccinated staff can't be employed, it just means the service provider needs to do risk assessments, get informed consent .. and do all they can to facilitate vaccinations for everyone (staff and clients) who wants one.

I don't see how it needs to be complicated or authoritarian, and I do in fact currently work at the sharp end of this.

There may be accommodation but there is no right for a patient to exclude staff.

 

[Border Reiver]

The reality is that the hospitals not know for sure who has been vaccinated, when, and for what in most circumstances.

 

[mojo pixy]

There may be accommodation but there is no right for a patient to exclude staff.

As you say, it's about flexibility, and I would add 'person-centred care' (I assume you are familiar with this idea?)

Patients / service users do have the right to refuse to be attended by anyone, eg female patients may under certain circumstances decline male staff and I have seen this happen. Not all requests can or will be acceded but if they are not then that will need to be justified - eg. a racist requesting staff of particular ethnicity could be refused under equality law, and because actual risks of harm are minimal / nonexistent. This would all need to be recorded btw.

A patient can request vaccinated staff only, and if this does not happen they will have the right to complain. What happens to that complaint is perhaps another issue (complaining about NHS service is famously frustrating and fruitless)

 

[mojo pixy]

The reality is that the hospitals not know for sure who has been vaccinated, when, and for what in most circumstances.

Rubbish. Healthcare unit managers have access to this information, in fact they have a legal duty to know it.

Your casual, arrogant handwaving is pissing me off now.

 

[Border Reiver]

As you say, it's about flexibility, and I would add 'person-centred care' (I assume you are familiar with this idea?)

Patients / service users do have the right to refuse to be attended by anyone, eg female patients may under certain circumstances decline male staff and I have seen this happen. Not all requests can or will be acceded but if they are not then that will need to be justified - eg. a racist requesting staff of particular ethnicity could be refused under equality law, and because actual risks of harm are minimal / nonexistent. This would all need to be recorded btw.

A patient can request vaccinated staff only, and if this does not happen they will have the right to complain. What happens to that complaint is perhaps another issue (complaining about NHS service is famously frustrating and fruitless)

There is no right to choose staff. You may have a right to refuse but this may result in being refused care in extreme situations. Hospitals try to accommodate but do not have a duty to provide alternative staff.

 

[Border Reiver]

Rubbish. Healthcare unit managers have access to this information, in fact they have a legal duty to know it.

Your casual, arrogant handwaving is pissing me off now.

Total bollocks. Except when it is compulsory for the job like Hep C in certain areas. Hospitals do not have access to personal health files held by GPs or even in many cases Occupational Health who have strict rules on disclosure and confidentiality.

How would a manager know if someone had Influenza, Covid or other vaccine given off site?