Papers, please - covid passport bollocks

[Border Reiver]

My recent experience doesn't quite chime with this. When I got my mum to ask about the vaccine status of my dad's carers, they were very eager to tell us that they'd all been vaccinated.

Not a right, perhaps, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask.

And this kind of passive 'take what you're given' attitude isn't good advice to anyone dealing with the NHS. Don't be a dick, but ask questions. Always ask questions.

Suppose that one of the nurses had a health status that precluded vaccination. Would you share that information? What if the nurse refused permission for her health status to be revealed? No one has a right to know staff health status. If the hospital considers it is safe to allow unvaccinated staff, that is the bottom line.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Suppose that one of the nurses had a health status that precluded vaccination. Would you share that information? What if the nurse refused permission for her health status to be revealed? No one has a right to know staff health status. If the hospital considers it is safe to allow unvaccinated staff, that is the bottom line.

You do have a very black and white view of things. What I would say is:

It depends...

 

[bimble]

Some people have a deeply unhealthy respect for authority, it’s like their brains stop when confronted by a decision made by other more Important people. If the hospital isn’t bothered about vaccinating staff, that’s it, end of subject. Same as if Twitter bans someone that’s it, everyone go home nothing further to discuss. I find this very odd, and sad, as a way of relating to the world.

 

[Border Reiver]

My recent experience doesn't quite chime with this. When I got my mum to ask about the vaccine status of my dad's carers, they were very eager to tell us that they'd all been vaccinated.

Not a right, perhaps, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask.

And this kind of passive 'take what you're given' attitude isn't good advice to anyone dealing with the NHS. Don't be a dick, but ask questions. Always ask questions. They don't always know best. Sometimes you know more than they do about what's wrong with you, particularly if you live with a chronic condition.

Ask questions but be prepared to be told that it is none of your business. You have no right to be informed about the health status of staff.

Imagine

"Nurse Smith is not vaccinated.
"Why not?"
"Oh, she's pregnant. She has not told her family yet but of course we will tell you"

 

[Border Reiver]

Some people have a deeply unhealthy respect for authority, it’s like their brains stop when confronted by a decision made by other more Important people. If the hospital isn’t bothered about vaccinating staff, that’s it, end of subject. Same as if Twitter bans someone that’s it, everyone go home nothing further to discuss. I find this very odd, and sad, as a way of relating to the world.

Individuals to not get to make the rules on access to health care. Some requests are just not reasonable. People are free to accept or refuse treatment on the terms it is offered.

 

[Shechemite]

Yes. Personal experience as a unit manager. If a patient asks the health status of any member of staff they get shirt shrift. The patient gets what is in offer from the hospital, not control over the staff. How would you feel about a client of yours wanting to know your health status?

so you don’t have any evidence for your claim that patients have ‘no right to know’ if an HCP has been vaccinated or not?

 

[Shechemite]

Individuals to not get to make the rules on access to health care. Some requests are just not reasonable. People are free to accept or refuse treatment on the terms it is offered.

well yeah this is how the NHS works.

 

[Border Reiver]

so you don’t have any evidence for your claim that patients have ‘no right to know’ if an HCP has been vaccinated or not?

Except three decades of ward management.

I think it is up to you to prove any right for a patient to know the health status of staff. You are the one suggesting there is a right to know.

There is no right to know the health status of staff.

 

[bimble]

This is irrational but I’m saying it anyway:
I’d very much appreciate if you didn’t quote me or try to engage with me directly please Border Reiver, and I’ll do the same. Thank you. It’s like an allergy.

 

[Shechemite]

Except three decades of ward management.

I think it is up to you to prove any right for a patient to know the health status of staff. You are the one suggesting there is a right to know.

There is no right to know the health status of staff.

its not up to me to go anything. You’ve made a claim. What can you present to us - apart from what you claim to be your personal experience - to justify your claim?

 

[WouldBe]

Imagine

"Nurse Smith is not vaccinated.
"Why not?"
"Medically exempt."

Would be fair enough without having to divulge personal health information.

 

[Border Reiver]

Would be fair enough without having to divulge personal health information.

Having had or not having had a vaccine is medical information. Patients do not get to know personal details of staff.

 

[Shechemite]

Patients do not get to know personal details of staff.

According to?

 

[Border Reiver]

According to?

Simple right to privacy.

 

[Shechemite]

the Human right to a private and family life is for the NHS to uphold

patients by definition cannot contravene the HRA

an HCPs ‘right’ to to withhold their vaccine status cannot be breached by a patient

NHS providers have the duty to uphold the human rights of both its staff and its patients. Personal data - and far more sensitive than vaccine status - is shared all the time without the consent of the data subject (eg information on professional registers such as the HCPC and NMC). The right to a private and family life doesn’t give any of us absolute control over our personal information.

 

[Shechemite]

I’d be interested to see an NHS document that states that staff can refuse to inform a patient and/or their carers because human rights

 

[WouldBe]

Simple right to privacy.

Extreme circumstances. A patients right to life should outweigh a small piece of staffs privacy.

 

[Shechemite]

There’s generally an exaggerated sense of their own privacy amongst NHS clinical staff.

Whether an NHS employer or a professional regulator is allowed in law to enforce vaccine transparency is a good question.

 

[Border Reiver]

Extreme circumstances. A patients right to life should outweigh a small piece of staffs privacy.

You are entitled to your opinion. Hospital policy differs. No staff health information need be shared.

I had HIV positive staff and even the other staff were not aware.

 

[Border Reiver]

the Human right to a private and family life is for the NHS to uphold

patients by definition cannot contravene the HRA

an HCPs ‘right’ to to withhold their vaccine status cannot be breached by a patient

NHS providers have the duty to uphold the human rights of both its staff and its patients. Personal data - and far more sensitive than vaccine status - is shared all the time without the consent of the data subject (eg information on professional registers such as the HCPC and NMC). The right to a private and family life doesn’t give any of us absolute control over our personal information.

Hospitals do not disclose staff health matters on demand.

 

[Border Reiver]

I’d be interested to see an NHS document that states that staff can refuse to inform a patient and/or their carers because human rights

I would be interested to see evidence of a right for a patient to know such information.

 

[Border Reiver]

Extreme circumstances. A patients right to life should outweigh a small piece of staffs privacy.

Knowledge about vaccination status is not life threatening.

 

[WouldBe]

Knowledge about vaccination status is not life threatening.

It is if they pass on covid which is a lot easier than passing on HIV and hiv isn't as fatal as covid.

Just seen on news that EU court of Human rights has ruled that a right to a private life cannot over rule a public health matter. (A case of compulsory vaccination in kids in checz Republic). So you could be on thin ice with that.

 

[WouldBe]

You are entitled to your opinion. Hospital policy differs. No staff health information need be shared.

I had HIV positive staff and even the other staff were not aware.

But you were so the staff member didn't have a right to not divulging their health status.

 

[Pickman's model]

You just do not read cites. "View attachment 262315All front line staff"

You just keep on lying like the mendacious piece of sealion shit you are

 

[Shechemite]

You are entitled to your opinion. Hospital policy differs. No staff health information need be shared.

Show us an NHS policy document which states this.

 

[Shechemite]

it's not abuse to call a lying cunt a lying cunt

call your doctor one next time you catch them lying. Tell us how it works out.

 

[Pickman's model]

call your doctor one next time you catch them lying. Tell us how it works out.

oh I will.

 

[Border Reiver]

Show us an NHS policy document which states this.

Show us an NHS policy that allows a patient to know the health status Of a member of staff.

 

[Border Reiver]

You just keep on lying like the mendacious piece of sealion shit you are

.