Northern Ireland dissident activity

[Rimbaud]

There was more rioting in Derry last night after police attempted to carry out searches in the Creggan area following on from a mortar bomb being found pointing at a police station in the nearby border town of Strabane. Petrol bombs were thrown at police and several homes had to be evacuated. This is the same part of town where the journalist Lyra Mckee was recently shot dead.

Creggan homes evacuated and police attacked

There was also an incident in New Lodge, Belfast recently relating to an "anti-internment" bonfire demanding the release of those arrested for dissident activity. Police attempted to dismantle the bonfire but were ultimately forced to retreat by people throwing petrol bombs.

Three police officers injured in bonfire trouble

There has been an uptick in dissident activity recently, including a car bomb outside a court house in Derry and a failed attempt to bomb a police car in Belfast, as well as some unsuccessful letter bombs. They are not as well trained or experienced as the Provos and are decidedly amateurish, but they are gaining experience and it is really only a matter of time before they pull off a successful attack. If this was any other part of the UK it would have a mega thread by now, so I decided it is time for a dedicated Northern Ireland dissident thread.

IMO the root of this the remnants of the old guard feeding on unemployed youths with few prospects, who are attracted to anything that could give their lives meaning and offer the chance to be a hero. However, it is hard to see how mortar bombing a police station really furthers the cause of a united Ireland - on the contrary it is more likely to entrench opposition just at the time where some from a Protestant background are starting to become open to the idea.

It is difficult to say to what extent Brexit has revitalised the dissident Republican movement, however a hard border would certainly stir things up.

 

[likesfish]

their minions managed to set themselves alight while chucking petrol bombs which is always
but a mortar and a command-detonated bomb is not good.
fortunately their wasnt an mtv crew about so they didnt kill anyone this time.

 

[Rimbaud]

their minions managed to set themselves alight while chucking petrol bombs which is always
but a mortar and a command-detonated bomb is not good.
fortunately their wasnt an mtv crew about so they didnt kill anyone this time.

It's quite sad to be honest, the people throwing petrol bombs are basically kids.

There's an issue in NI of transgenerational trauma. Probably most of these kids grew up with stories from their parents and grandparents of getting burnt out of their homes by loyalists, murdered by the British Army or Loyalist paramilitaries, dying in hunger strikes, all the rest... Almost every family in Northern Ireland has such stories to varying degrees. For kids, growing up hearing about this sort of thing can become a part of their identity and effect their outlook in an even deeper way than it effects those who experienced it first hand. Add to it social and economic deprivation, unemployment, and general frustration and you have a potent mix.

These guys are going down a dead end for sure, and compared to when the troubles kicked off 50 years ago there is a real lack of political savviness and coherent vision. But they are worthy of sympathy. I don't think it's right to laugh at them.

 

[likesfish]

Yes thats true to a certain extent the poor bastards are being dragged into a really retarded version of the sealed knot and the poor sods really dont have a clue and little other options
But as I've had petrol bombs chucked at me part of me is still

 

[flyingcolumn]

Ireland unfree will never be at peace.

 

[flyingcolumn]

There was more rioting in Derry last night after police attempted to carry out searches in the Creggan area following on from a mortar bomb being found pointing at a police station in the nearby border town of Strabane. Petrol bombs were thrown at police and several homes had to be evacuated. This is the same part of town where the journalist Lyra Mckee was recently shot dead.

Creggan homes evacuated and police attacked

There was also an incident in New Lodge, Belfast recently relating to an "anti-internment" bonfire demanding the release of those arrested for dissident activity. Police attempted to dismantle the bonfire but were ultimately forced to retreat by people throwing petrol bombs.

Three police officers injured in bonfire trouble

There has been an uptick in dissident activity recently, including a car bomb outside a court house in Derry and a failed attempt to bomb a police car in Belfast, as well as some unsuccessful letter bombs. They are not as well trained or experienced as the Provos and are decidedly amateurish, but they are gaining experience and it is really only a matter of time before they pull off a successful attack. If this was any other part of the UK it would have a mega thread by now, so I decided it is time for a dedicated Northern Ireland dissident thread.

IMO the root of this the remnants of the old guard feeding on unemployed youths with few prospects, who are attracted to anything that could give their lives meaning and offer the chance to be a hero. However, it is hard to see how mortar bombing a police station really furthers the cause of a united Ireland - on the contrary it is more likely to entrench opposition just at the time where some from a Protestant background are starting to become open to the idea.

It is difficult to say to what extent Brexit has revitalised the dissident Republican movement, however a hard border would certainly stir things up.

Despite 1/5 of M15 agents being posted to the north of Ireland they still can't keep a lid on things. 24/7 monitoring, exile, jail... all failing.

 

[Don Troooomp]

I felt a genuine sadness when I read the OP. I don't know anyone over there but I think back to the troubles of some years ago with all the death and misery, and I gave a mini prayer of sorts in the hope the violent will realise how foolish their actions are before it kicks off again in a big way.

 

[8115]

It's quite sad to be honest, the people throwing petrol bombs are basically kids.

There's an issue in NI of transgenerational trauma. Probably most of these kids grew up with stories from their parents and grandparents of getting burnt out of their homes by loyalists, murdered by the British Army or Loyalist paramilitaries, dying in hunger strikes, all the rest... Almost every family in Northern Ireland has such stories to varying degrees. For kids, growing up hearing about this sort of thing can become a part of their identity and effect their outlook in an even deeper way than it effects those who experienced it first hand. Add to it social and economic deprivation, unemployment, and general frustration and you have a potent mix.

These guys are going down a dead end for sure, and compared to when the troubles kicked off 50 years ago there is a real lack of political savviness and coherent vision. But they are worthy of sympathy. I don't think it's right to laugh at them.

I've been to Belfast, it's not like that all over. It may be more of an issue in very sectarian communities. There was work done around reconciliation. I can't remember the details. I've been there twice and had a friend who lived there for quite some time (just to say where I'm coming from).

 

[Don Troooomp]

Ireland unfree will never be at peace.

Define free.

One man's version of a free Ireland is another man's reason to kill.

 

[Humberto]

British state not heavy-handed against 'the paddy' oh no. ffs just look at them. And the rest.

 

[krtek a houby]

However, it is hard to see how mortar bombing a police station really furthers the cause of a united Ireland - on the contrary it is more likely to entrench opposition just at the time where some from a Protestant background are starting to become open to the idea.

It is difficult to say to what extent Brexit has revitalised the dissident Republican movement, however a hard border would certainly stir things up.

I like to be optimistic and hope that despite the likes of Saoradh and other dissidents, there will be a united Ireland. Bombings and murdering journalists won't wash with the majority - it's a horrible step back into the darkness.

Brexit, or rather the attitude towards the people of the 6 counties by certain Tory politicians doesn't help at all. It sends a message out that they don't give a flying fuck, basically. And support for soldier F, being quite visible is understandably going to piss a lot of people off, too. So many factors as to why the peace remains fragile.

 

[Don Troooomp]

It's very clear Soldier F was part of the action, perhaps a murderer, but the IRA has more than a few just as bad.
That in mind, where does it all end? If this guy is prosecuted, does that mean IRA and Loyalist Irish killers will also be hunted down and put on trial all these years after their crimes and, if so, what will that do for peace?

Basically, much as the Paratroopers are highly likely to be guilty and deserve heavy punishment, I believe the trial can only make things worse.

 

[Dogsauce]

IRA killers are still prosecuted. It’s called accountability, not being above the law.

 

[Don Troooomp]

IRA killers are still prosecuted. It’s called accountability, not being above the law.

New ones are but I haven't seen any arrests for crimes carried out during the troubles. That isn't a claim you're wrong, but I would request a few links to news articles showing recent arrests for attacks that took place before the peace accord in order to educate myself.

 

[flypanam]

Check out the work of the Historical Enquries Team of the psni which is now disbanded or scaled down.

Historical Enquiries Team - Wikipedia

Historical Investigations Unit - Victims & Dealing With the Past

Investigations into the Troubles are vital – and that includes ex-soldiers | Kieran McEvoy

 

[Baronage-Phase]

New ones are but I haven't seen any arrests for crimes carried out during the troubles. That isn't a claim you're wrong.

Eh?

You didnt hear of the Maze? Long Kesh? H Block?

 

[krtek a houby]

Eh?

You didnt hear of the Maze? Long Kesh? H Block?

I think Don might mean he's not aware of arrests post-GFA for crimes committed pre-GFA...

 

[Baronage-Phase]

http://www.irlnet.com/saoirse/list.html

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I think Don might mean he's not aware of arrests post-GFA for crimes committed pre-GFA...

He should read more then. Because saying he's not aware in the way he has done is disingenuous. As if there were no arrests...

 

[Don Troooomp]

http://www.irlnet.com/saoirse/list.html

POW dept? That says a lot on its own.
How many were convicted post 2000?

 

[Don Troooomp]

He should read more then. Because saying he's not aware in the way he has done is disingenuous. As if there were no arrests...

No 'no arrests', just recent arrests, say post 2000

 

[Don Troooomp]

I've just looked at a random few on the 'POW' list, all before 2000, and none in the last year or two. In fact, I can't find any recent arrests for anyone accused of a pre good Friday agreement terrorist crime.

I may well be wrong so feel free to educate me.

 

[Don Troooomp]

By the way, this isn't a troll job, just a genuine question that colours the way I look at the trial in question.
If IRA members that committed murders around that time are also being hunted down, he's fair game. If such investigations have stopped, he is not.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It's quite sad to be honest, the people throwing petrol bombs are basically kids.

There's an issue in NI of transgenerational trauma. Probably most of these kids grew up with stories from their parents and grandparents of getting burnt out of their homes by loyalists, murdered by the British Army or Loyalist paramilitaries, dying in hunger strikes, all the rest... Almost every family in Northern Ireland has such stories to varying degrees. For kids, growing up hearing about this sort of thing can become a part of their identity and effect their outlook in an even deeper way than it effects those who experienced it first hand. Add to it social and economic deprivation, unemployment, and general frustration and you have a potent mix.

These guys are going down a dead end for sure, and compared to when the troubles kicked off 50 years ago there is a real lack of political savviness and coherent vision. But they are worthy of sympathy. I don't think it's right to laugh at them.

This ^ basically offers the best analysis of the uptick. If you are angry, if you recognise your life is shit and always will be, if you are sick of low level police harassment and if you are just bored then the communal memory in these communities tells you what to do. And there will be elements within the community who can facilitate it and provide the resources and surface level political explanation for you whilst you do

 

[Rimbaud]

I've been to Belfast, it's not like that all over. It may be more of an issue in very sectarian communities. There was work done around reconciliation. I can't remember the details. I've been there twice and had a friend who lived there for quite some time (just to say where I'm coming from).

Within Belfast it is concentrated in some of the most deprived areas - New Lodge, and parts of West Belfast such as Ballymurphy. No coincidence that these places were also the sites of notorious massacres. Aside from that it is also parts of Derry and nearby towns like Strabane. I have a colleague from Strabane - his family were originally from Belfast but got their home burned down during 69, so they moved to Derry, and got burnt out their homes again, and finally ended up in Strabane. It isn't everyone or everywhere, but these kinds of experiences inevitably shape people's perspectives, and the sort of people throwing petrol bombs are from areas where stuff like that definitely went on.

 

[Idaho]

Presumably, like last time, the extremists are deliberately scaling up the violence and encouraging a tit-for-tat escalation to swell their ranks and increase their influence. Meanwhile 95% of people just want to get on with day to day life.

 

[Pickman's model]

New ones are but I haven't seen any arrests for crimes carried out during the troubles. That isn't a claim you're wrong, but I would request a few links to news articles showing recent arrests for attacks that took place before the peace accord in order to educate myself.

if you are so wilfully blind i'm not sure there's much that can be done to help you

 

[Pickman's model]

and of course people are still being framed, such as the craigavon 2, imprisoned for the murder of pc carroll - see this pdf which goes into detail about the case and why the case of the men imprisoned, brendan mcconville and john paul wooton, is a miscarriage of justice

 

[Teaboy]

I have a friend who works in the treasury. He reckons its worrying that the Northern Ireland border and Brexit is being talked about more of a fiscal matter. The government have calculated that in the scheme of things the return of widespread smuggling will not have a major impact fiscally. He finds it depressing that he had to point out that the people doing the smuggling won't be buying Haribo and Milky Bars with the money they make.

 

[Idaho]

I have a friend who works in the treasury. He reckons its worrying that the Northern Ireland border and Brexit is being talked about more of a fiscal matter. The government have calculated that in the scheme of things the return of widespread smuggling will not have a major impact fiscally. He finds it depressing that he had to point out that the people doing the smuggling won't be buying Haribo and Milky Bars with the money they make.

The run up to so many historical disasters is predicated with the erroneous belief that things will be fine even though there are clear signs of trouble.

Normalcy bias - Wikipedia