More child murders and assassination threats

[moono]

Hamas's candidate for Palestinian prime minister, Ismael Haniya, could become a target for assassination if he becomes involved in "acts of terror", Israel has warned.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/06E90406-31C3-4B49-9FFE-B95BA13A35EB.htm

Hamas began their election campaign outside the home of Yassin, murdered by Israelis.
Israel killed another three Palestinian children on Monday.

Why is the Israeli government not classified as a 'terrorist' organisation ?

 

[big footed fred]

It's all one sided. The Palestinaians never kill children and are innocent of all crime.
Pity the above is bollocks and the terrorists are a bunch of bastards that deserve to die along with all those who support them.

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/palestineterror.jpg

Jerusalem----May 2....Palestinian terrorists murdered 4 young Jewish children and their pregnant mother this afternoon. The terror attack targeted the family vehicle while it was traveling on the road that leads to the Gaza Strip settlement bloc of Gush Katif.

You fucking idiots that try to make one group out as bad and the other justified in it's actions are just making a lousy situation worse.
Both lots are wrong in what they do and both need their heads banging against a fucking wall until they see sense and stop killing people for ends that there is no chance of getting.

 

[tangentlama]

there isn't a settlement at gush katif anymore.

how long ago was that report?
2005? No.
2004? Yes.

but when there was, gush katif housed a well-trained and well-armed kahane-chai style american-jewish militia, surrouded by a wall of civilians and renowned for anti-arab terror attacks across all the occupied territories. alot of them were criminals on the run from US justice for JDL terror attacks in the USA, and they had no compunction in moving their families into this zone. the gush katifers have been a thorn in both Palestinians and Israelis side since they stepped up their activities after the Alex Odeh assassination, since many ran to Israel on their dual passports to escape prosecution and imprisonment. one of their leaders, Andy Green aka Baruch Ben Yosef, was the lawyer who represented the Israeli spy Jonathon Pollard, who is still imprisoned. Andy Green then became a 'rabbi'. His aim is to recapture the Temple Mount in preparation for the Third Temple. He's a member of the recently reformed Sanhedrin, and an avowed Monarchist to boot who wants to put another rabbi 'on the throne of David' to become King of Israel. They got alot of money from both Jewish and Christian zionist charity groups to fund the illegal settlements and their illegal activities.

 

[big footed fred]

What does it matter if it was a year or two back ?
The point is that the kids had no US backing or explosive dummies to kill poor downtrodden palestinians.

There are people on both sides willing to kill and use their religion or their rights to be on the land as a reason.

I can't think that any of these things is an excuse to kill.

I will repeat to make it very clear for the supporters or apologist of the Muslims or jews that do these things

BOTH ARE A BUNCH OF MURDERING BASTARDS THAT NEED TO REVIEW THEIR LIVES AND STOP KILLING EACH OTHER

 

[tangentlama]

yes they did have backing from various the US (in the form of financial support from various charities)

many of those katif bloc childrens' parents were terrorists on the run from US authorities (JDL is a terrorist organisation, as is Kahane Chai) .
their parents were prepared to put their childrens' lives on the line by illegally settling Palestine. they were well funded by US charities (not the Israeli Govt) and even the Israeli Govt. has a long-standing problem with the Katifers and those who encouraged their illegal activities.

you ought to at least do some background research before shouting about 'murdering bastards' in the Middle East forum

 

[moono]

BOTH ARE A BUNCH OF MURDERING BASTARDS THAT NEED TO REVIEW THEIR LIVES AND STOP KILLING EACH OTHER

Oh right, the reasoned voice of justice and mediation. Next.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What does it matter if it was a year or two back ?
The point is that the kids had no US backing or explosive dummies to kill poor downtrodden palestinians.

There are people on both sides willing to kill and use their religion or their rights to be on the land as a reason.

I can't think that any of these things is an excuse to kill.

I will repeat to make it very clear for the supporters or apologist of the Muslims or jews that do these things

BOTH ARE A BUNCH OF MURDERING BASTARDS THAT NEED TO REVIEW THEIR LIVES AND STOP KILLING EACH OTHER

Fred, I love you like a son (an idiot son who drools a lot and can't be trusted in polite company, obviously), but you really should know what you're talking about before wading in with your size fourteens and making sweeping generalisations.

 

[big footed fred]

Fred, I love you like a son (an idiot son who drools a lot and can't be trusted in polite company, obviously), but you really should know what you're talking about before wading in with your size fourteens and making sweeping generalisations.

Thanks dad but the point is a very general one that both sides are as bad as each other.
Israel targets Palestinians with no idea as to who they will kill and sometimes aims at kids for whatever reason.

The paleatinian terrorists murder without care for who they kill as it all has the same end.

As for tangentlama suggesting that these were justified as they got aid from the US I wonder if he is fucking sane.
I don't know the ins and outs of the situation but I do know that people able to kill kids like this are not fit to live.

yes they did have backing from various the US (in the form of financial support from various charities)

many of those katif bloc childrens' parents were terrorists on the run from US authorities

Were they funded by the US or on the run from the US ?


I wonder if anyone can justify the killings of kids from any side without resorting to bollocks about how they are funded by blah blah or moved there as an act of blah blah against blah blah. I would suggest that anyone who tries is just as guilty as those who do the killing - on both sides.

 

[moono]

Well, fred, you obviously ain't a bigot so that makes you fair game for recruitment. Before you decide to straddle the fence permanently ( and thereby become an obstacle to justice ) please have a read of this in relation to the deaths of children.
http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/183.shtml

Does that move you to demand action ? Or not ?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thanks dad but the point is a very general one that both sides are as bad as each other.

I've told you before not to call me dad. I disowned you, remember?

Israel targets Palestinians with no idea as to who they will kill and sometimes aims at kids for whatever reason.

The paleatinian terrorists murder without care for who they kill as it all has the same end.

You're making a fundamental mistake there IMHO, in that you're assuming that neither side is doing what they do for a reason.
In that part of the world the name of the game is "terror", whether that's state terror or non-state terror. One of the best ways to promote terror is to attack the weakest, show that no-one is safe.
That's why both sides of this disgusting conflict do it.

As for tangentlama suggesting that these were justified as they got aid from the US I wonder if he is fucking sane.
I don't know the ins and outs of the situation but I do know that people able to kill kids like this are not fit to live.

Were they funded by the US or on the run from the US ?

Gush Katif? Both.
Funded by American Jews in the US, occupied by American Jews who fled there from the US after they got so far on the wrong side of the law that a kindly blind eye couldn't be turned on their activities anymore. Even the state of Israel loathed them because they're a bunch of rabid racist dogs.

I wonder if anyone can justify the killings of kids from any side without resorting to bollocks about how they are funded by blah blah or moved there as an act of blah blah against blah blah. I would suggest that anyone who tries is just as guilty as those who do the killing - on both sides.

Depends entirely what you mean by "justify".
If you're a military strategist (whether you're Israeli, Palestinian or a Siberian dancing frog is immaterial) then if you can use a particular act to achieve your end then that is what you do. The British army in Kenya, Malaysia and many other independence-related struggles used acts which can be classified as "terrorism" (small-scale massacre, bombing, sniping etc) very effectively in pursuit of the destabilisation of the indigenous "freedom fighters".

Can somebody justify an individual killing or group of killings for what boil down to partisan reasons of group loyalty? Not if they've got an ounce of compassion or wit.

Can they justify deaths as a price for achieving a military or political objective? I'd say that people have done so for thousands of years and aren't about to stop now, worst luck.

 

[big footed fred]

Well, fred, you obviously ain't a bigot so that makes you fair game for recruitment. Before you decide to straddle the fence permanently ( and thereby become an obstacle to justice ) please have a read of this in relation to the deaths of children.
http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/183.shtml

Does that move you to demand action ? Or not ?

Yes it does. I have no intention to defend what Israel is doing as it is very clear that their actions are wrong. I looked at the site and it shows a bunch of deaths that should never had happened but it fails to mention that the palestinian terrorists do the same sort of things.
I'm not so much on the fence as pointing out that both sides do things that are a little less than perfect.
I am sure you would join me in condemnation of the people on both sides that behave in this way.
Can we agree on that much ?

Back to Daddy,
i know that they justify their actions and the rough reasons that they give. Both are more than pathetic. It's no better than 'my dad is better than your dad' but it's not a bloody nose we are talking about, it's mass death.

So back to my argumant - can we agree that it's both sides that need to get together and agree to live in peace and that this would be a much better solution than what we have now ?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Back to Daddy,
i know that they justify their actions and the rough reasons that they give. Both are more than pathetic. It's no better than 'my dad is better than your dad' but it's not a bloody nose we are talking about, it's mass death.

I think you're missing my point. It isn't just the two sides you're talking about it's any side that decides that conflict (either total or low-intensity, it doesn't matter which) is an option of anything but last resort. The problem lies with the fact that as a strategy of tension the murder of innocents is just about number one on the list for methods of getting your point across violently and painfully, and for causing your "enemy" maximum fear and despair. It sends a powerful message of "no-one is safe".

So back to my argumant - can we agree that it's both sides that need to get together and agree to live in peace and that this would be a much better solution than what we have now ?

I totally agree, but I think it's worth reiterating (ad infinitum if necessary) that in this particular situation power (including bargaining power) is asymmetric, and that without effectively reducing that asymmetry (perhaps by taking the "peacemaking process" out of American hands and putting it somewhere more neutral) the problems are pretty much stuck in a diplomatic and ideological bog.

 

[big footed fred]

Rats and bugger daddy - it seems we pretty much agree on this.
Just get a little pissed of that the threads are always Israel does this and that with no mention of what the others do.

Still using the US as a peace broker is a little silly as they supply arms to Israel and have a political motive for wanting to see one side come out on top.
It's a bit like using an sweet shop as a slimming club venue - sort of a bad start.

I'll sit in a quiet corner, have an ice cream and drool a bit.

 

[mears]

What does it matter if it was a year or two back ?
The point is that the kids had no US backing or explosive dummies to kill poor downtrodden palestinians.

There are people on both sides willing to kill and use their religion or their rights to be on the land as a reason.

I can't think that any of these things is an excuse to kill.

I will repeat to make it very clear for the supporters or apologist of the Muslims or jews that do these things

BOTH ARE A BUNCH OF MURDERING BASTARDS THAT NEED TO REVIEW THEIR LIVES AND STOP KILLING EACH OTHER

Thats right. There are no good guys and bad guys in this conflict. Only Idiots. Israelis bombing from the air and Palestinians glorifying suicide killings. They both are in the wrong.

Choosing sides is silly and pointless.

 

[ZAMB]

I don't know the ins and outs of the situation but I do know that people able to kill kids like this are not fit to live.

Off-topic, I know, but isn't this an argument for putting Bush/Blairco in front of a firing squad for their little ME ventures?? Lots of innocent kids blown to bits in Iraq in the name of Shock and Awe.

 

[mears]

I've told you before not to call me dad. I disowned you, remember?

You're making a fundamental mistake there IMHO, in that you're assuming that neither side is doing what they do for a reason.
In that part of the world the name of the game is "terror", whether that's state terror or non-state terror. One of the best ways to promote terror is to attack the weakest, show that no-one is safe.
That's why both sides of this disgusting conflict do it.

Gush Katif? Both.
Funded by American Jews in the US, occupied by American Jews who fled there from the US after they got so far on the wrong side of the law that a kindly blind eye couldn't be turned on their activities anymore. Even the state of Israel loathed them because they're a bunch of rabid racist dogs.


Depends entirely what you mean by "justify".
If you're a military strategist (whether you're Israeli, Palestinian or a Siberian dancing frog is immaterial) then if you can use a particular act to achieve your end then that is what you do. The British army in Kenya, Malaysia and many other independence-related struggles used acts which can be classified as "terrorism" (small-scale massacre, bombing, sniping etc) very effectively in pursuit of the destabilisation of the indigenous "freedom fighters".

Can somebody justify an individual killing or group of killings for what boil down to partisan reasons of group loyalty? Not if they've got an ounce of compassion or wit.

Can they justify deaths as a price for achieving a military or political objective? I'd say that people have done so for thousands of years and aren't about to stop now, worst luck.

"Funded by American Jews in the US, occupied by American Jews who fled there from the US after they got so far on the wrong side of the law that a kindly blind eye couldn't be turned on their activities anymore. Even the state of Israel loathed them because they're a bunch of rabid racist dogs"

What is this?

 

[mears]

I think you're missing my point. It isn't just the two sides you're talking about it's any side that decides that conflict (either total or low-intensity, it doesn't matter which) is an option of anything but last resort. The problem lies with the fact that as a strategy of tension the murder of innocents is just about number one on the list for methods of getting your point across violently and painfully, and for causing your "enemy" maximum fear and despair. It sends a powerful message of "no-one is safe".

I totally agree, but I think it's worth reiterating (ad infinitum if necessary) that in this particular situation power (including bargaining power) is asymmetric, and that without effectively reducing that asymmetry (perhaps by taking the "peacemaking process" out of American hands and putting it somewhere more neutral) the problems are pretty much stuck in a diplomatic and ideological bog.

Now this is rich.

Who is that "neutral" power? Just going to put it out there without answering your question? I assume you mean the European Union.

The US has something like 290 million people with a median household income of $44,000 in 2004. I know, the links again.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/income04/prs05asc.html

This means a huge economy. Like the California economy which is nearly the same size if not bigger than the French economy. Big economy means big bucks for defense. Even though the US spends by far the most money on defence, they are not even in the top 40 of per capita gdp.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig_pergdp

Right ahead of the French in 46th place among world countries. So as things stand the US can have its cake and eat it to. Just looking at the facts now.

The US military can hit Iran in the next couple of hours on a whim. It can deploy forces in the Atlantic, Pacific and Middle East. Military units all over the world. No chest thumping mind you.

The EU is not being taken seriously in the region. As I see it its just the way it is. Correct me if I am wrong. Better for the US and EU to work in tandem as they hopefully will do with Iran.

Let the Russians play with themselves.

 

[kakuma]

you're well funny mears, you make it so easy to hate militarists/republicans

 

[moono]

fred;

I am sure you would join me in condemnation of the people on both sides that behave in this way. Can we agree on that much ?

No. The Israelis have murdered over 700 Palestinian children since 2000. Ex-IOF soldiers have stated that many of these killings were 'policy'. When you couple this State-sponsored brutality and disproportionality with the illegality of the Occupation you are left with a culprit and a victim. You should review the information which causes you to make allowances for the culprit. It is clouding your judgement.

 

[kakuma]

fred;


No. The Israelis have murdered over 700 Palestinian children since 2000. Ex-IOF soldiers have stated that many of these killings were 'policy'. When you couple this State-sponsored brutality and disproportionality with the illegality of the Occupation you are left with a culprit and a victim. You should review the information which causes you to make allowances for the culprit. It is clouding your judgement.

so of course the answer is to strap bombs to yourself and murder more civilians in the name of god

we need more people like you in power

 

[moono]

so of course the answer is to strap bombs to yourself and murder more civilians in the name of god we need more people like you in power

Sarcasm is a poor tool. Stupidity in the guise of sarcasm isn't a tool at all.

 

[kakuma]

ok, your point seemed to me that becuase israel has a fucked up and murderous policy towards palestine, terrorists should not be criticised for murdering israelis

you refuse to condemn murder because it is in the name of something you see as just

hypocrite

 

[moono]

Israel's Assassination Policy

International law prohibits without exception, the extra-judicial killing of protected persons. Israel's policy of assassination clearly amounts to intentional or wilful killing, which constitutes a grave breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention and is subject to international criminal prosecution.

So, why isn't the Right Wing of the Israeli government 'classified' as a terrorist organisation ? They've murdered many Palestinians since August 2004 whereas Hamas have maintained a ceasefire since then.
Is it merely propaganda and publicity which determines who is 'classified' a 'terrorist' and who is not ?
Who wields the authority when 'terrorists' classify terrorism ?

 

[kakuma]

oh right, in that case i condone murder of people getting the bus to work

 

[moono]

ok, your point seemed to me that becuase israel has a fucked up and murderous policy towards palestine, terrorists should not be criticised for murdering israelis

In that case, you launched yourself into a discussion which you did not understand.

Ninjaboy;

oh right, in that case i condone murder of people getting the bus to work

It's taken just three of your posts for me to know that you are devoid of anything interesting to this topic. I'd guess that your large accumulation of posts are essentially argumentative nonsense. Correct ?

 

[kakuma]

so is it ok or not to murder people to make a point????

 

[moono]

Correct, evidently.

 

[kakuma]

yes or no will do

 

[moono]

You're self-procreating. You don't need me to fertilise your delusions.

 

[kakuma]

so yes

why shouldnt israel be allowed to murder fuckheads like you since you would murder innocent israelis given half a chance?

thats your fucked up reasoning btw