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Insurance company CEO assassinated in New York

I used to be involved in writing crisis management tests for large businesses.
When I started our aim was to bring information security to the knowledge of executives.
A theoretical exercise to see if they are aware of the processes and procedures in times of crisis.
The last one I did, highlighted environmental terrorism aimed at executives, for enacting decisions that were perilous to the planet.
The fallout from that one being, the business divesting away from fossil fuel activities completely and dropping their plans for further oil exploration.
The fear of losing what they have is what keeps these people awake at night.
 
Yossarian said:
They do explain their reasoning:

The state is now pursuing charges of terrorism and first degree murder against Luigi, further evidence of the political nature of his case. First degree murder charges are generally reserved for when the victim is a judge, a police officer or a first responder, or the person had an intent to commit terrorism. Do prosecutors and the state view CEOs as state officers because of how much funding they receive from private interests for their political campaigns from CEOs like Thompson? And on what grounds could they consider Luigi’s alleged actions terrorism?

Terrorism is an act meant to strike fear into the general population, while Luigi's alleged actions only struck fear into a tiny group of ultra-wealthy CEOs of corporations profiting off of sickness and death. There is a long history of the state weaponizing terrorism charges against common people working to change the unbearable status quo of how the state and corporations exploit, rob, and kill them.
Click to expand...

Yes. This is cobblers, for the reasons above. Dangerous cobblers too, based on a misunderstanding/misinterpretation (possibly wilful) of the law.

What they're doing is justifying giving the money donated to Mangione, to 'other political prisoners', if he refuses it.

Who gets to say who those political prisoners are?

That statement allows for money collected for Mangione, to be given to White Supremacist prisoners.

The collection is being organised by the December 4th Legal Committee. Who the fuck are they?

At the moment we have no idea about the people collecting this money, or even proof of Mangione's background and motivation. He could be the Grand Wizard of the fucking Ku Klux Klan.

The collection could also very easily be a total scam. I could have set that up in 10 minutes. I guarantee that the Nigerian 419 scammers would love to get hold of the email addresses of the gullible idiots who are donating, and I'd be very surprised if the collection hasn't attracted the attention of the FBI.
 
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From the police report not published in the media as per the Ken Klippenstein link above. Using apple photos to copy the text in the photo.

</quote>SHIELD


NYPD SHIELD


COUNTERING TERRORISM through INFORMATION SHARING


Post-incident Assessment


Writings of Alleged Perpetrator of UnitedHealthcare


CEO Shooting Reveal Grievances Against Health Insurance Company, Disdain for Corporate Greed


Information Cutolf Date: 9 December 2024, 1030 hours


Assessment:


Based on a review of the hand written claim of responsibility and social media presence of Luigi Mangionel


, the suspect


in the UnitedHealthcare (UHC) CEO shooting, the NYPD inteligence & Counterterrorism Bureau (ICB) assesses that the alleged perpetrator was likely driven to violence on the bass of grievances against what he perceives as a "parasitic" health insurance company and industry as a whole, as well as broader objections to corporate greed and a concern for modern society. He appeared to view the targeted lolling of the company's highest-ranking representative as a symbolic takedown and a direct challenge to its alleged corruption and "power games," asserting in his note he is the *first to face it with such brutal honesty. Mangone may have found inspiration in Ted Kaczynski-the violent, anti-technology extremist known as the Unabomber-echoing in his note and reflecting in his targeting a similar mindset of the need for unilateral action to bring attention to abusive corporate actions. Based on observed initial online reactions to the shooting. induding celebrations of the kiting of a heaith insurance executive and encouragement of targeting leaders across ndustries, there is a risk that a wide range of extremists may view Mangione as a martyr and an example to folicw.


• Within the three-page handweitten claim of responsibility on his person, Mangone wrote,


. *Frankly these parasites


simply had it coming." presumably referring to the UHC CED and/or similar executives. He lamented that the US has the "most expensive healthcare system in the world" yet "ranks #42 in life expectancy," noting that the profits of major corporations continue to rise while "our life expectancy" does not. He declared that these mafiosa have gotten too powerful* and "continue to abuse our country for immense profit." He stated that, while many have


"lluminated* this "corruption and greed decades ago," the issues persist. in a statement signifying that he likely views himself as a hero of sorts who has finally decided to act upon such injustices, he noted, *Evidentiy I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty."


• On his public social media profiles, Mangione expressed concern over technological ativances (e g, social media<quote>
 
Spymaster said:
Not really. He hasn't been charged with terrorism per se. He's been charged with first degree murder on the grounds that terrorism was an element of the crime. If he had only been charged with first degree murder you might have a point but he's been charged with a shitload of other stuff too including second degree murder, which does not require the terrorism element. Unless he wasn't the guy in the videos we've seen, he's clearly still a murderer, regardless of whether or not you consider him a terrorist. The difference is in the maximum sentences. First degree murder in New York is life without parole, and second degree is life with parole.

It's common in the US for prosecutors to prefer multiple charges of varying degrees, so if the jury declines to convict on one, they may convict on another. It's similar to an alternative charge of manslaughter being added to a murder prosecution in UK law.

They were always going to throw the book at him and that's what's happened. Domestic Terrorism there is 'an act of murder or kidnapping designed to intimidate or coerce civilians, or influence government policy'. The prosecution argument is that his shooting of Thompson was an attempt to coerce/intimidate businesspeople (who are civilians). That charge (first degree murder) may get dropped later, plea bargained away, or he may be found not guilty of it, but it doesn't make him a political prisoner.

He's in prison because he shot a man dead in the street.
Click to expand...
Whether or not he’s a political prisoner, he’s very clearly a politicised prisoner.
 
petee said:
update, i have UHC (as said above). i got a bill two weeks ago for a visit to the foot doctor in july and for which i co-payed at the time. curiously late, so i called the office. turned out that UHC had ... denied the claim. so $150 on top of the co-pay. i may be doing my own podiatry in future.
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Appeal the decision? They probably rely on most claimants capitulating straight away. I'd be tempted to go through their whole appeals/complaints process every time they denied a claim.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
FFS! They found some chalk graffiti in front of the offices of Blue Cross/Blue Shield in Omaha and the police are freaking out.

www.1011now.com

Graffiti outside Omaha health insurance office catches attention from local authorities

Graffiti echoing the sentiments of recent disdain with the healthcare industry was found outside the Blue Cross Blue Shield office in Omaha.
www.1011now.com www.1011now.com

Contrast that with my experience of dealing with graffiti. One February night there was a spate of graffiti in my neighborhood. They probably did 30 houses in a clear trail across the city. It was from a Mexican drug gang. They also slashed tires, smashed car windows, etc. I should also mention that they were dealing meth out of a house a couple blocks over and a prostitution ring next door and they'd threatened me directly in the past and vandalized cars, etc. When the cops came to talk to me, they told me I had 24 hours to paint over it or they'd give me a ticket.

Now, I know graffiti doesn't rate much police response for regular people. I don't expect them to drop everything else. My question is why is this a major thing on their radar, and why is this newsworthy? It seems like they're getting pretty bent out of shape by one "agent provocateur", as the commentator characterized it. It's only a small bit of free speech with chalk that they said itself will wash away quickly in the rain. It actually seems to be a pretty mild response given the scope of the healthcare problems in the US.
Click to expand...
Wait, what!?!?!?!? When you were a victim of a crime (over here in England, we'd call someone graffiti-ing your property 'criminal damages) the cops threatened to give you a ticket?!?!? That's wild.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
Wait, what!?!?!?!? When you were a victim of a crime (over here in England, we'd call someone graffiti-ing your property 'criminal damages) the cops threatened to give you a ticket?!?!? That's wild.
Click to expand...
Happens in the UK too.
www.theargus.co.uk

Fines scrapped for small businesses hit by graffiti

Small businesses that are targeted by tagging will now be written to instead of fined if they fail to clean graffiti
www.theargus.co.uk www.theargus.co.uk
 
Larry O'Hara said:
He was imprisoned for bombing a train station was he not? So on your logic simply a terrorist/criminal
Click to expand...

Well it's not my logic, it's the law; and it's not necessarily simple either.

Terrorists can become political prisoners if they are treated differently for their crimes because of their political views. Then there's the old cliché regarding one man's terrorist etc.

Many people might support the political aims of the Real IRA, but far fewer would condone the Omagh bombing or say that the men responsible were not murderers who should be imprisoned.

There's a difference between political murderers and political prisoners.
 
Spymaster said:
Well it's not my logic, it's the law; and it's not necessarily simple either.

Terrorists can become political prisoners if they are treated differently for their crimes because of their political views. Then there's the old cliché regarding one man's terrorist etc.

Many people might support the political aims of the Real IRA, but far fewer would condone the Omagh bombing or say that the men responsible were not murderers who should be imprisoned.

There's a difference between political murderers and political prisoners.
Click to expand...
Yes you persist in that belief why don’t you
 
Looks like you're talking at crossed purposes here. Spy's right. A man was gunned down in the street because of what he did, legally, for a living. There was never any chance that the state wouldn't throw the book at the killer. And yeah, the US legal system is like this - they chuck a whole bunch of charges at people. My guess, fwiw, is that eventually they'll do him for second degree murder and he'll get a very, very long stretch.
 
Larry O'Hara said:
He was imprisoned for bombing a train station was he not? So on your logic simply a terrorist/criminal
Click to expand...

He was not.

Mandela's conviction after the Rivonia Trial was not for bombing a railway station. The railway station bombing in Johannesburg was in 1964 after Mandela had been put on trial and the militant who planted the bomb was a white member of the South African Liberal Party not the ANC or MK.

I thought you top rank investigative journalists were meant to check your facts.

Rivonia Trial 1963 - 1964 | South African History Online

www.sahistory.org.za www.sahistory.org.za

www.theguardian.com

The men who may hang

Anthony Sampson's despatch on the trial from South Africa, published in The Observer in March 1964
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

 
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moochedit said:
Same with fly tipping. you're expected to clean it up.
Click to expand...
Well, yes. However, it's not the concept of the land/building owner being responsible for cleaning their premises that I'm struggling with.

It's the idea that the land/building owner who is the victim of a crime of criminal damage or fly-tipping can then effectively be punished as a direct result of being victim of such crimes, which strikes me as rather unjust. Although I've long been aware that the law and justice are two separate things entirely.

I mean, I get that a land owner would need to clean up whatever was fly-tipped, because it might pose an environmental/health hazard. But it's less clear to me why a building owner would be required to clean their building (unless the graffiti was offensive in some manner).

What if the building owner couldn't be bothered to clean up the graffiti because the next day or week it would be graffiti'd again? What if they didn't want to go to the time, trouble and expense of cleaning graffiti, potentially again and again and again?
 

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AnnO'Neemus said:
Wait, what!?!?!?!? When you were a victim of a crime (over here in England, we'd call someone graffiti-ing your property 'criminal damages) the cops threatened to give you a ticket?!?!? That's wild.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe it was done on the "broken window" theory of crime that the neighborhood association (don't get me started on them!) advocated for. The theory is that if you allow things like broken windows and other maintenance issues to fester that it breeds crime. I don't object to painting over graffiti, but I was annoyed by the fact that they expected it to be painted over in 24 hrs in the middle of February. It's way too cold to paint and expect it to cure right that time of year. I spent a couple hours in the cold, painting over it and then hitting it with a hairdryer so the paint wouldn't freeze.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
Yes, I believe it was done on the "broken window" theory of crime that the neighborhood association (don't get me started on them!) advocated for. The theory is that if you allow things like broken windows and other maintenance issues to fester that it breeds crime. I don't object to painting over graffiti, but I was annoyed by the fact that they expected it to be painted over in 24 hrs in the middle of February. It's way too cold to paint and expect it to cure right that time of year. I spent a couple hours in the cold, painting over it and then hitting it with a hairdryer so the paint wouldn't freeze.
Click to expand...
Ah, yes, I've vague recollections of the broken window theory from a US politics class at college yeeeeears ago, wasn't it a mayor (of New York or some other big city ?) called David Dinkins?

Expecting it to be done with 24 hours even in a dry warm summer would be ridiculous!

I think over here, the municipal authorities might paint over something quickly if the graffiti contains hate speech, so I can understand the need for speed in such circumstances, but random graffiti, nah, not urgent.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
Well, yes. However, it's not the concept of the land/building owner being responsible for cleaning their premises that I'm struggling with.

It's the idea that the land/building owner who is the victim of a crime of criminal damage or fly-tipping can then effectively be punished as a direct result of being victim of such crimes, which strikes me as rather unjust. Although I've long been aware that the law and justice are two separate things entirely.

I mean, I get that a land owner would need to clean up whatever was fly-tipped, because it might pose an environmental/health hazard. But it's less clear to me why a building owner would be required to clean their building (unless the graffiti was offensive in some manner).

What if the building owner couldn't be bothered to clean up the graffiti because the next day or week it would be graffiti'd again? What if they didn't want to go to the time, trouble and expense of cleaning graffiti, potentially again and again and again?
Click to expand...
I'm certainly not disagreeing with you that it's unfair.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
Ah, yes, I've vague recollections of the broken window theory from a US politics class at college yeeeeears ago, wasn't it a mayor (of New York or some other big city ?) called David Dinkins?

Expecting it to be done with 24 hours even in a dry warm summer would be ridiculous!

I think over here, the municipal authorities might paint over something quickly if the graffiti contains hate speech, so I can understand the need for speed in such circumstances, but random graffiti, nah, not urgent.
Click to expand...

Broken Windows was big in the 90s and early 2000s in policing and wider community safety both in the states and the UK. There is something to it, but approaches to it are far more nuanced now. The issue or ‘problem’ with it is it was applied at at time where the old bill and wider services were actually receiving greatly increased funding. So the reduction in crime and anti social behaviour that was seen may have been to do with the theory or might have to do with the fact there were actually community cops to patrol, youth services to engage with vulnerable young people and highway maintenance to clear up graffiti and minor vandalism.

Certainly Bratton who led NYPD when they did have massive effect in making NY seem much safer had wheelbarrow loads of cash to play with. When he went to LAPD who, for reasons, couldn’t /wouldn’t fund in the same way he didn’t replicate the changes.

It’s almost as if there is a link between funding the public sector and getting results…

There obviously a class element too, broken windows, real and metaphorical, are far more like to be left in areas where poorer people live, and therefore the ire of the authorities is disproportionately drawn there…

I think most practitioners think that there is a place for broken windows theory, but it’s far more nuanced than it was in the 90s. Including the person who developed it.
 
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Spymaster said:
First put into practice by good old Rudy Guiliani, in NYC.
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Ah, yes, I stand corrected, thank you. I was getting muddled up, very vague memories of US politics class in college, I remembered something about broken windows theory and also David Dinkins, although he was mentioned as he'd famously referred to New York City's demographic diversity as "not a melting pot, but a gorgeous mosaic".
 
Spymaster said:
It actually raises an interesting point.

I've had a quick Google and it's undefined in international law. I'll have a proper look tomorrow but my idea of a political prisoner is someone jailed for political views; not murder. Once someone commits murder, for whatever reason, they're just a murderer, not a political prisoner. Giving scum like Anders Breivik the title of "political prisoner" is a disgusting affront to genuine ones.
Click to expand...
I mean, I don't really like the term "political prisoner" myself, I think it's better and clearer to describe people by the movement they're affiliated with, for instance you can describe someone who's in prison for punching a nazi as an antifascist prisoner and that's a bit less contentious. So I suppose you could call Mangione as someone who's in prison for his alleged contributions to the movement for healthcare reform.
But there is a fairly long history of people organising support for people who are imprisoned for actions taken as part of a political movement, and of the term "political prisoner" being used for that.
The Anarchist Black Cross Federation have this definition, for instance:

Political Prisoner: A person incarcerated for actions carried out in support of legitimate struggles for self-determination* or for opposing the illegal policies of the government or its political subdivisions. (Special International Tribunal on the Violation of Human Rights of Political Prisoners and Prisoners of War in the United States Prisons and Jails, December 1990)

...The Anarchist Black Cross Federation (ABCF) recognizes that there are many who fall into the category of PP/POW, including right-wing militia leaders and white separatists, Lyndon LaRouche and Timothy McVeigh, etc. Because of this, we will further define PP/POWs the ABCF shall support as being “those persons incarcerated as a result of political beliefs or actions consciously undertaken and intended to resist exploitation and oppression, and/or hasten the implementation of an egalitarian, sustainable, ethical, classless society, predicated on self-determination and maximization of all people’s freedom.” (Bill Dunne)
Click to expand...
As I say, I don't particularly love the term myself, but I do think that "persons incarcerated as a result of actions consciously undertaken to resist exploitation" is a coherent category, and Mangione fits it.
Spymaster said:
Yes. This is cobblers, for the reasons above. Dangerous cobblers too, based on a misunderstanding/misinterpretation (possibly wilful) of the law.

What they're doing is justifying giving the money donated to Mangione, to 'other political prisoners', if he refuses it.

Who gets to say who those political prisoners are?

That statement allows for money collected for Mangione, to be given to White Supremacist prisoners.

The collection is being organised by the December 4th Legal Committee. Who the fuck are they?

At the moment we have no idea about the people collecting this money, or even proof of Mangione's background and motivation. He could be the Grand Wizard of the fucking Ku Klux Klan.

The collection could also very easily be a total scam. I could have set that up in 10 minutes. I guarantee that the Nigerian 419 scammers would love to get hold of the email addresses of the gullible idiots who are donating, and I'd be very surprised if the collection hasn't attracted the attention of the FBI.
Click to expand...
Well, they have an email address, you can email them at [email protected] if you want to know more.
Not really a surprise that the December 4th Legal Committee is a new thing, prior to about a month ago there wasn't really a need for an organisation to raise funds for people accused of shooting insurance CEOs. If you think it's insufficiently transparent and it'd be better to have a permanent public organisation dedicated to raising funds for anyone accused of shooting an insurance CEO, feel free to set one up.
The legal committee's not really that obscure either, it has public spokespeople, if you're interested you can listen to a podcast with two of them here (fwiw, I think the podcast is a bit rambly and self-congratulatory, not the greatest thing I've ever listened to, but fair play to them, they're doing good work):

We Raised $175,000 For Luigi Mangione - Party Girls - Fans.fm

fans.fm fans.fm

Or for people who like to watch videos (I feel like such a fucking hypocrite posting youtube videos at this point lol), here's a video with Jamie Peck appearing on a talk show in her role as a spokesperson for the fund:

And here's Sam Beard, a different spokesperson, appearing on CNN:


Spymaster said:
Well it's not my logic, it's the law; and it's not necessarily simple either.

Terrorists can become political prisoners if they are treated differently for their crimes because of their political views. Then there's the old cliché regarding one man's terrorist etc.

Many people might support the political aims of the Real IRA, but far fewer would condone the Omagh bombing or say that the men responsible were not murderers who should be imprisoned.

There's a difference between political murderers and political prisoners.
Click to expand...
When you mention the Real IRA and the Omagh bombing, is that your way of tacitly admitting that you do think that Provo prisoners arrested for their acts before the signing of the Good Friday Agreement were real political prisoners? ;) Nah, I do think that the IRA during the troubles is a good illustration of how complex the category is, the British government introduced Special Category Status in 1972 precisely to recognise that kind of complexity. Similar with the hunger strikes, prisoner releases at the time of the GFA and so on, you can insist that Bobby Sands was just a common criminal if you want but I don't think it adds much to understanding the world.
 
Also worth sharing some of the comments from people who've donated to the fundraiser:

"I was 6 when I was diagnosed with cancer. I watched as my parents suffered under medical bills not covered by insurance. Once we got back from treatment to see people in our yard bidding on our house. A neighbor had to liquidate their 401(k) to ensure we had a place to sleep. It took mom and dad 20 years of tireless work to get out from under the debt, but I am here now to say you are a hero."

"I hope the little I can give will make a difference for you. I believe your sacrifice has worked and the people are opening their eyes."

"Denying healthcare coverage to people is murder, but no one gets charged with that crime. 'bout time we point out this hypocrisy."

"Nearly all of us except the 1% are uninsured or underinsured. Stay together on this one and don’t let us be divided my American brothers and sisters. Let this sacrifice be the spark and catalyst for change. Universal healthcare is a human right, while our private, for-profit health insurance system is a crime against humanity."

"As a physician who witnesses every day just how corrupt, greedy, and unethical the health care system is and how it is set up to crush the common person, I applaud Luigi for his courage, heart, and passion. Luigi, you are fighting the fight that so many of us in medicine have been neutered or brainwashed to avoid. Thank you for your service and for helping America wake up! You are not alone!"

"Like me, many RNs, doctors and other health professionals have seen 1st hand harm done to people by actions of United Health insurance and other insurers. People die due to their actions daily. A single CEO’s death hardly compares to the deaths of thousands of fellow countrymen. Nurses and doctors who see the abuse and leave, unable to fight any longer. This is a fight worth having."

“Luigi did more for this country and sacrificed more than I ever did as an honorably discharged member of the U.S. Army who served in combat zones. Political failures corporate donations to politicians and political corruption have all lead to the extortion of millions of Americans. Some may not like Luigi’s actions, but sometimes hard choices have to be made. How many died as a result of UHC?”

“Contributing all the way from Singapore. U risked your future for all the underdogs everywhere. Nothings more noble to me than that.”

“As a healthcare provider, you have my complete support. Insurance companies are evil entities without reigns. Thank you for your service.”

“Class solidarity! This man has done something incredibly brave and extreme to help unite us against the ruling class. All Americans deserve healthcare free from profiteering.”

“Every media platform and talking head and politician and exec who condemns the people supporting this action only demonstrates the depth of their disdain for the common person in America and how out of touch they are with the misery and indignity forced on people by our healthcare system.”

“This donation is in memory of a single mom of 3 toddlers who died after insurance company refused to pay for her treatment, leaving her 3 toddlers without a mom or dad.”

“Luigi’s actions represent a fierce rejection of a system that profits massively yet doesn’t care about the American people. Our deaths, our pain, our cries for help are constantly silenced and ignored, as we work multiple jobs just to afford to live. This isn’t about political parties. It’s about CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS. FREE LUIGI.”

“You took on a huge burden to right a terrible wrong. I am sorry it came to this, but I do feel like what you have done has sparked something bigger, that in time the changes that ripple out from this act will become profound, lasting, and good for all. Wishing you peace (remember to breathe) and hope.”
 
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