More child murders and assassination threats

[mears]

Mears is one of those people who appear to have difficulty with shades of gray. You and me know that life isn't black and white, that pretty much no-one except an idiot stitches themselves into a position on something that leaves no room for manouvre (or "wriggle room" as mears called it), but for mears the world is black and white.

Of course there are shades of grey. But somethimes questions can be answered with a simple yes or no.

Like this: Do you believe Israel has a right to exist as a nation state? Its a question that doesn't require shades of grey but a simple yes or no. You either believe Israel has a right to exist or you do not.

We both agree Israel has a right to exist. We are on the same page on this one.

Cheers!

 

[mears]

Mears, since the question was directed at you, who is the "he" that you referred to?

I agree with tangentlama, stop playing with hypotheticals - these are real issues.

Now then, do you think that countries should respect each others borders?

yes

 

[mears]

Mears - do you think that Israel was within their rights to demolish a Palestinian jail and kidnap one of the inmates?

This action seemed poorly handled by the Israelis. They should have put these guys on trial in the first place if they feel crimes were perpetrated.

 

[moono]

mears;

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist as a nation state? Its a question that doesn't require shades of grey but a simple yes or no. You either believe Israel has a right to exist or you do not.

That simply isn't so. In this instance in particular, 'shades of grey' are working in Israel's favour. It seems clear that Israel is in breach of Resolution 194 yet Israel was required to fulfil all the requirements of Resolution 194 in order to ratify Statehood. In 'black or white' terms then, no, Israel has no legal Statehood and so no right to exist. In terms of 'shades of grey' Israel might yet fulfill the requirements of Resolution 194 so we're stuck with them.

 

[cemertyone]

This action seemed poorly handled by the Israelis. They should have put these guys on trial in the first place if they feel crimes were perpetrated.

Just about everything the I.D.F. doe`s in the occupied terrorities is " Poorly handled"...what`s new about that?
The intention of the I.D..F ( and their political bosses) is to keep a deliberate strategy of low level instability to draw attention away from ther continious land grap of Pal lands and to keep the media agenda on the actions of the Pal pera-militaries instead.
Its a classic british counter-insurgency tactic...i.e. Aden/cyprus/Malyisa etc etc.

 

[moono]

There is nothing 'defensive' about Israel's occupation of Palestine. 'IDF' is a misnomer. They are the 'IOF' until such times as they withdraw, imo.

 

[nino_savatte]

Of course there are shades of grey. But somethimes questions can be answered with a simple yes or no.

Like this: Do you believe Israel has a right to exist as a nation state? Its a question that doesn't require shades of grey but a simple yes or no. You either believe Israel has a right to exist or you do not.

We both agree Israel has a right to exist. We are on the same page on this one.

Cheers!

I speak yourweight. Insert coin.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Of course there are shades of grey. But somethimes questions can be answered with a simple yes or no.

Like this: Do you believe Israel has a right to exist as a nation state? Its a question that doesn't require shades of grey but a simple yes or no. You either believe Israel has a right to exist or you do not.

We both agree Israel has a right to exist. We are on the same page on this one.

Cheers!

Wrong, the question is absolutely shot through with shades of grey, for example to do with what form that nation-state takes.
That's the thing, you shouldn't take a position on an issue without relevant context and detail. If you don't have that context and detail then you have no ability to discern intent and no ability to criticise abuses, because hey, you believe in Israel's existence, and as you didn't contextualise that, you obviously believe unreservedly in Israel's existence.

That kind of blind faith wastes lives.

 

[mears]

Wrong, the question is absolutely shot through with shades of grey, for example to do with what form that nation-state takes.
That's the thing, you shouldn't take a position on an issue without relevant context and detail. If you don't have that context and detail then you have no ability to discern intent and no ability to criticise abuses, because hey, you believe in Israel's existence, and as you didn't contextualise that, you obviously believe unreservedly in Israel's existence.

That kind of blind faith wastes lives.

Does George Bush's presidency, and all the decisions made, contain shades of grey?

What position do I take without relative context or detail? I don't believe "unreservedly" in any nation state, like any state who gasses millions of your fellow jews like Nazi Germany.

Its the existence of Israel, not her borders, not the population in the country, just whether the name Israel should exist as a nation state.

And we both agree it should exist.

 

[mears]

Just about everything the I.D.F. doe`s in the occupied terrorities is " Poorly handled"...what`s new about that?
The intention of the I.D..F ( and their political bosses) is to keep a deliberate strategy of low level instability to draw attention away from ther continious land grap of Pal lands and to keep the media agenda on the actions of the Pal pera-militaries instead.
Its a classic british counter-insurgency tactic...i.e. Aden/cyprus/Malyisa etc etc.

Just about everything the Palestinian leadership has done is poorly handled. Swiss bank accounts and incompetence. Nothing new about that.

 

[nino_savatte]

Does George Bush's presidency, and all the decisions made, contain shades of grey?

What position do I take without relative context or detail? I don't believe "unreservedly" in any nation state, like any state who gasses millions of your fellow jews like Nazi Germany.

Its the existence of Israel, not her borders, not the population in the country, just whether the name Israel should exist as a nation state.

And we both agree it should exist.

That's your interpretation and it is an interpretation based on a narrowness of perspective.

Do you believe in Father Xmas?

I speak your weight. Insert coin.

 

[spring-peeper]

Just about everything the Palestinian leadership has done is poorly handled. Swiss bank accounts and incompetence. Nothing new about that.

I wonder what shady investments could be found if we started looking into America's financial dealings?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Does George Bush's presidency, and all the decisions made, contain shades of grey?

What position do I take without relative context or detail?

You said: "You either believe Israel has a right to exist or you do not."
That seems a pretty black and white position to me. It's absolutist, it's contextless and detail-free.

I don't believe "unreservedly" in any nation state, like any state who gasses millions of your fellow jews like Nazi Germany.

You believe, unreservedly, that Israel has the right to exist.

Its the existence of Israel, not her borders, not the population in the country, just whether the name Israel should exist as a nation state.

So it's taken you how many posts to put your support into context?

because that's the first time you've actually elucidated beyond the general on what you mean by "Israel".

And we both agree it should exist.

Of course, and Israel will exist while there's still a single Jew breathing.

 

[mears]

I wonder what shady investments could be found if we started looking into America's financial dealings?

go ahead

 

[mears]

You said: "You either believe Israel has a right to exist or you do not."
That seems a pretty black and white position to me. It's absolutist, it's contextless and detail-free.

You believe, unreservedly, that Israel has the right to exist.

So it's taken you how many posts to put your support into context?

because that's the first time you've actually elucidated beyond the general on what you mean by "Israel".


Of course, and Israel will exist while there's still a single Jew breathing.

If Israeli started gassing Palestinians I would not want the state to exist. But yes, I do believe like you in the existence of an Israeli state, and a Palestinian state as well.

 

[spring-peeper]

If Israeli started gassing Palestinians I would not want the state to exist. But yes, I do believe like you in the existence of an Israeli state, and a Palestinian state as well.

A little mutual respect would be nice, too.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Just about everything the Palestinian leadership has done is poorly handled. Swiss bank accounts and incompetence. Nothing new about that.

by isreali and international design... tho

as i have said before the pa wasn't supposed to be around for more than 6 months there simply was never the infrastructure put in place for them to become effective government, as that wasn't their role... The pa was to take over from the PLO and form an interim government until elections could be held, they were block barracked and disowned by isreal and the international community and so the elections didn't happen ... by the time the issues had been worked out the year added up to dicking around and isreali military and polictical maneauvering designed to land grab and instiute further actions to cause instability.

the PA wasn't/isn't the palestinian government it's an administrative body designed to put in place the ability to set up a palestinian government

 

[nino_savatte]

If Israeli started gassing Palestinians I would not want the state to exist. But yes, I do believe like you in the existence of an Israeli state, and a Palestinian state as well.

Israel hasn't gassed the Palestinians but has done things that are equally as reprehensible.

Of course, one as thick as you can't quite get their head around that idea: no gas has been used and there are no gas chambers, so everything is okay - right?

I speak your weight. Insert coin.

 

[ViolentPanda]

by isreali and international design... tho

as i have said before the pa wasn't supposed to be around for more than 6 months there simply was never the infrastructure put in place for them to become effective government, as that wasn't their role... The pa was to take over from the PLO and form an interim government until elections could be held, they were block barracked and disowned by isreal and the international community and so the elections didn't happen ... by the time the issues had been worked out the year added up to dicking around and isreali military and polictical maneauvering designed to land grab and instiute further actions to cause instability.

the PA wasn't/isn't the palestinian government it's an administrative body designed to put in place the ability to set up a palestinian government

Yep.

I have "liberal" acquaintances who blather on about how the state of Israel and the US have "given" Palestinians power, but who can't understand that the power is massively and deliberately circumscribed in such a way as to not allow the PA to function within it's remit, and that the "power" resides in the hands of a handful of Palestinians, the majority of whom were on the take.

That's why the Hamas win has put the shits up so many in the international community; they may not be able to buy off the new boys anywhere near as easily.

 

[moono]

they may not be able to buy off the new boys anywhere near as easily.

I'll risk going on record as saying that they won't be able to buy them off at all. It would be like trying to bribe the Viet Cong.