Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

[elbows]

Re Iraq timing, Was having lots of chats pre invasion with defense exterior types (french Mi6). They had the timing down to the operation difficulties of sitting in a tank in the middle of middle east summer and the markets being to jittery (price of oil rising steadily)so couldn't wait till autumn. But if man in media relations says it was Murdoch.... The blood runs redder on colour tv

Indeed, but those timing issues were well discussed in the media at the time. I don't think this latest story is trying to suggest that Murdoch etc actually made much difference to the timing, its just a good example of them attempting to exert political pressure.

 

[elbows]

Dunno if you have read the Chris Mullin diaries, but there is an entry from before the Iraq war (June 2002) where Mullin was speaking to a Tory MP (George Young) who told him that IDS was entangled up with the Americans then, and that they were trying to disentangle him.

I have not read it, but it should come as no surprise that quite a number of tories were tied up with atlanticism, neo-conservatives etc. And I suppose we shouldn't be surprised if some tories were worried about this, since it tends to open up their fractures over europe, and IDS wasn't exactly a popular leader in the first place.

In the buildup to the Iraq war I think Gove was the most obvious cheerleader for the neo-cons, although he was a journalist at the time. Fox would be a more recent notable example although obviously that went a bit pear shaped, but I expect there are others within the upper ranks of the party who have similar potential.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Iain Duncan Shit has had on-off links with The Heritage Foundation and other US conservative and neocon organisations since the days when he and the other Eurosceptics of the Tory backbenches spent their energies making Major's life a misery.

Still, one expects Tories to be Atlanticists, which is probably why so many nu-Labourites are Atlanticist too.

 

[agricola]

Leveson has had a pop at Gove et al., and their not at all self-serving complaints of likely effect on press freedom to make money from whatever they want.

 

[Streathamite]

Still, one expects Tories to be Atlanticists, which is probably why so many nu-Labourites are Atlanticist too.

and Old Labourites - Callaghan and Healey, to name but two (and, arguably, Our 'Arold)

 

[ViolentPanda]

and Old Labourites - Callaghan and Healey, to name but two (and, arguably, Our 'Arold)

Well yeah, but their Atlanticism was a tempered Atlanticism, it wasn't about fawning for table scraps to the same degree that the current Brit neolib shower are.

 

[Streathamite]

Christ, to think we're nostalgic for that lot, on grounds of them having more dignity!

 

[DaveCinzano]

Well yeah, but their Atlanticism was a tempered Atlanticism

Really?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Really?

In comparison to the Atlanticism of the nu-Labour fucks? Fuck, yes! Big Jim and Mr. Eyebrows may have been craven arse-sniffers, but they knew when to back away, and even occasionally did so, and paid some mind to how things might play to the electorate. Blair and his creeps just rammed the tongue up regardless.

 

[Streathamite]

In comparison to the Atlanticism of the nu-Labour fucks? Fuck, yes! Big Jim and Mr. Eyebrows may have been craven arse-sniffers, but they knew when to back away, and even occasionally did so, and paid some mind to how things might play to the electorate. Blair and his creeps just rammed the tongue up regardless.

agreed absolutely. A good example is 'Nam. Labour supported the US diplomatically, but made very sure not a single Brit soldier went in

 

[DaveCinzano]

Any citations for this, or are we sticking to big sweeping generalisations?

 

[butchersapron]

agreed absolutely. A good example is 'Nam. Labour supported the US diplomatically, but masde very sure not a single Brit soldier went in

Apart from all them specialists and trainers and intelligence chaps.

 

[Streathamite]

Apart from all them specialists and trainers and intelligence chaps.

yes, sorry, should have clarified, I meant frontline troops, the sort that go in shooting and are specifically there for that

 

[Streathamite]

Any citations for this, or are we sticking to big sweeping generalisations?

sorry?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Evidence, Jezza, evidence: that pre-NL the Labour Party leadership offered only a "tempered Atlanticism".

Certainly that view does not chime with what I have read about the subject, though in the face of evidence I might happily accept it.

 

[Streathamite]

Evidence, Jezza, evidence: that pre-NL the Labour Party leadership offered only a "tempered Atlanticism".

Certainly that view does not chime with what I have read about the subject, though in the face of evidence I might happily accept it.

simple; there's the 'Nam example I quoted, for one. Also, if you read the diaries of Tony Benn, there are countless instances of Wilson's cabinet giving mild, qualified support for this or that US initiative, and relations often being quite strained. A far cry from the desperate, slavish support that was the hallmark of the Blair era (Bush offered to give Britain effectively an opt-out of theIraq war, but Blair put our troops in regardless)

 

[DaveCinzano]

That's evidence-lite at best. Throwing in weasel words doesn't make it any more convincing.

 

[Streathamite]

like I say, the best place to look is in TB's diaries....

 

[Ranbay]

from the comments.

i cannot believe that these two b.....ds have been allowed mobile phones while they were supposed to be rehabilitated for this horrible crime to mrs fergus son james.

 

[London_Calling]

It's not diff to understand why the story gained traction, but I also find myself wondering how details of Jimmy Carr's personal affairs reached the public domain; someone at his accountancy firm, at HMRC, who in the media did they pass/sell the information to - who first broke the story .... is this the type of issue that should fall within a new definition of 'public interest' ... where does the balance lay with a right to privacy ...

 

[gosub]

Times investigating the accountancy firm. Firm boasted of Jimmy Carr being funds largest contributer to undercover journos

 

[London_Calling]

A Murdoch paper investigating tax avoidance? Love that - another level of moral complication.

 

[Random]

A Murdoch paper investigating tax avoidance? Love that - another level of moral complication.

Have you apologised for your racial abuse yet? Or are you still proud of what you did, despite the widespread disgust from U75's community?

 

[Lock&Light]

Have you apologised for your racial abuse yet? Or are you still proud of what you did, despite the widespread disgust from U75's community?

Change the record, will you?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Change the record, will you?

Yeah, apologising for racist remarks is so 90s. This is the edgy 21st century, Random.

 

[laptop]

Someone who doesn't care about an apology for racism: an apologist for racism.

 

[Streathamite]

Change the record, will you?

can't you see why so many people feel so strongly about this?

 

[Orang Utan]

Have you apologised for your racial abuse yet? Or are you still proud of what you did, despite the widespread disgust from U75's community?

shh, best just ignore it and it will go away eventually

 

[ViolentPanda]

Change the record, will you?

Eat shit and die.

 

[Lock&Light]

Eat shit and die.

Your record has long since been stuck.