Milk's impact on the planet dairy, soya, rice, oat and almond compared

[Wookey]

I really don't get it. I'm sure most people who post here are conscious of and are limiting their negative impact on the planet, so why does it feel like a competition to discover who is most holy?

Well, you yourself said you compare your CO2 output with other people's - why do you do that? To get a measure of whether you are under or over some perceived fair limit, perhaps? Are you a medium consumer, a low-carbon emitter, etc, it's part of being aware of our relative impact I'd say, knowing where you come in the table, as it were.

You are clearly a pioneer in domestic energy production and low-carbon lifestyle, but don't forget most other people are far behind, and still consume and emit far more than their fair share in global terms. So taking action on something as ubiquitous and every day as industrial MILK is pretty fucking revolutionary, imo! It's potential for change is massive. For people who can't have wind turbines and locally grown veg, it's a way of heading in the same direction you have already walked, that's why it energises people.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Well, you yourself said you compare your CO2 output with other people's - why do you do that? To get a measure of whether you are under or over some perceived fair limit, perhaps? Are you a medium consumer, a low-carbon emitter, etc, it's part of being aware of our relative impact I'd say, knowing where you come in the table, as it were.

You are clearly a pioneer in domestic energy production and low-carbon lifestyle, but don't forget most other people are far behind, and still consume and emit far more than their fair share in global terms. So taking action on something as ubiquitous and every day as industrial MILK is pretty fucking revolutionary, imo! It's potential for change is massive. For people who can't have wind turbines and locally grown veg, it's a way of heading in the same direction you have already walked, that's why it energises people.

It's being judged that I can't abide. Especially so when those doing the judging have a far worse negative impact on the planet than some of those they are judging.

 

[Orang Utan]

FFS, grow a pair and learn to think for yourself

that's exactly what i'm doing. hence my change in position to what i was saying a few years ago.

 

[Saul Goodman]

that's exactly what i'm doing. hence my change in position to what i was saying a few years ago.

Good for you. Carry on.

 

[Orang Utan]

It's being judged that I can't abide. Especially so when those doing the judging have a far worse negative impact on the planet than some of those they are judging.

you're only being judged for the way you make your case.

 

[Saul Goodman]

you're only being judged for the way you make your case.

No, I'm being judged for daring to drink cows' milk. The simple fact that you can't see this is the very reason why I feel your posts don't deserve a reasonable response.

 

[Orang Utan]

No, I'm being judged for daring to drink cows' milk. The simple fact that you can't see this is the very reason why I feel your posts don't deserve a reasonable response.

this is simply not true. and provably so, just from reading the thread. you're really honestly seriously only being judged for being a dick online.

 

[8ball]

In the last couple of years, I've, at least, halved my meat consumption. In the same time, I've massively reduced my carbon footprint, but because I still drink milk, I'm a planet destroying monster, who wants to savagely kill all of the animals on the planet.
The mind boggles!

Yeah, but you have made relative claims about your impact relative to others when these things are really hard to nail down.

 

[Wookey]

It's being judged that I can't abide. Especially so when those doing the judging have a far worse negative impact on the planet than some of those they are judging.

I think some people need to grab onto masts in a storm - the storm being the end of the world as we know it, and the mast any sensation that we as individuals just might have some kind of control over what is happening!

I try to be green mostly to assuage guilt, to be honest. I do have a sense of custodianship of the Earth, and all that high-falutin' Gaia shit! But in truth, I just feel guilty at having the luxuries of a modern rich person's life, so the greener I am, the less guilty I feel. And - most important - the more I can artificially improve my sense of green esteem by criticising the efforts of others, the less guilty I feel and the more reinforced is my self-image! It's like a life-buoy in a teeming sea of shit, is that particularly psychic mechanism!

 

[Saul Goodman]

either you do give a shit and have made changes as you've posted yourself or you don't and can ignore this thread
why the fuck are you posting so much shit, hypocrisy hunting and keep going round and round and coming back to it??
you can just fuck off the thread if nothing to prove

And your input to the thread has been what, exactly?

this is simply not true. and provably so, just from reading the thread. you're really honestly seriously only being judged for being a dick online.

Coming from possibly the most hated person on here, I'll either take that as a compliment or with a large pinch of salt

 

[Orang Utan]

go to bed

 

[Orang Utan]

Coming from possibly the most hated person on here, I'll either take that as a compliment or with a large pinch of salt

But quoted so you can apologise in the morning

 

[8ball]

I think some people need to grab onto masts in a storm - the storm being the end of the world as we know it, and the mast any sensation that we as individuals just might have some kind of control over what is happening!

I try to be green mostly to assuage guilt, to be honest. I do have a sense of custodianship of the Earth, and all that high-falutin' Gaia shit! But in truth, I just feel guilty at having the luxuries of a modern rich person's life, so the greener I am, the less guilty I feel. And - most important - the more I can artificially improve my sense of green esteem by criticising the efforts of others, the less guilty I feel and the more reinforced is my self-image! It's like a life-buoy in a teeming sea of shit, is that particularly psychic mechanism!

V honest post.

I often suspect we’re pissing in the wind with little individual actions and comparisons tbf, but small actions do
help when added up amongst enough people, at least a bit. And staying interested helps.

 

[Calamity1971]

No, I'm being judged for daring to drink cows' milk

You do tend to be on the back foot in any veggie/vegan thread. Just my observation, maybe engage instead of attack.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yeah, but you have made relative claims about your impact relative to others when these things are really hard to nail down.

I know my impact is much lower than at least one of those people (no names, etc.) And I can prove it if anyone wants to wave footprints

 

[8ball]

go to bed

Reasonable comment. You’ve been sniping from the sidelines, but that was totally unwarranted.

 

[8ball]

I know my impact is much lower than at least one of those people (no names, etc.) And I can prove it if anyone wants to wave footprints

Such things are very hard to prove definitively in most cases, not wanting to make assumptions obv.

 

[Saul Goodman]

You do tend to be on the back foot in any veggie/vegan thread. Just my observation, maybe engage instead of attack.

You're absolutely right, because the vegans always start out with an ' I'm better than you' attitude, and it stinks.

 

[Wookey]

Coming from possibly the most hated person on here

Ouch! How to marginalise someone from the playground, what's your Chinese burn like??

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yeah, but you have made relative claims about your impact relative to others when these things are really hard to nail down.

Relative to one other.

 

[Orang Utan]

Reasonable comment. You’ve been sniping from the sidelines, but that was totally unwarranted.

what do you mean? is sniping from the sidelines coming in late? or just commenting on the quality of the debate? there is so much to be talked about with regards to what we choose to eat and i'd rather it was conducted without rancour and wagon circling, but this place seems to drag everyone in to a fruitless slanging match and make dicks out of everyone
eta not just this place, much of online debate is a complete waste of time.

 

[Calamity1971]

You're absolutely right, because the vegans always start out with an ' I'm better than you' attitude, and it stinks.

They really don't. That's your perception, and most on here aren't vegan.

 

[8ball]

You're absolutely right, because the vegans always start out with an ' I'm better than you' attitude, and it stinks.

Well, some do. Some others just feel living in one way is better on certain levels than living in other ways.

 

[Saul Goodman]

But quoted so you can apologise in the morning

Not a hope. Your MO defines you.

 

[Saul Goodman]

They really don't. That's your perception, and most on here aren't vegan.

And most here aren't judging others for drinking milk.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Well, some do. Some others just feel living in one way is better on certain levels than living in other ways.

Then let them live their life, and let me live mine, and don't dare to judge me for my life choices.

 

[8ball]

what do you mean? is sniping from the sidelines coming in late? or just commenting on the quality of the debate? there is so much to be talked about with regards to what we choose to eat and i'd rather it was conducted without rancour and wagon circling, but this place seems to drag everyone in to a fruitless slanging match and make dicks out of everyone
eta not just this place, much of online debate is a complete waste of time.

It’s getting late, I can check back later as to which posts gave me that perception. You’re certainly far from hated on these boards, though.

There is certainly a lot of sensitivity in these discussions and it comes from both sides.

 

[Saul Goodman]

what do you mean? is sniping from the sidelines coming in late? or just commenting on the quality of the debate? there is so much to be talked about with regards to what we choose to eat and i'd rather it was conducted without rancour and wagon circling, but this place seems to drag everyone in to a fruitless slanging match and make dicks out of everyone
eta not just this place, much of online debate is a complete waste of time.

You don't add to a debate, you only ever snipe from the sidelines.

 

[Orang Utan]

Do I have to pick a side then?

 

[Saul Goodman]

eta not just this place, much of online debate is a complete waste of time.

If all that people want to do is belittle those who they think aren't as righteous as they are, then all online debate is a waste of time.
I attempted to provide an ethical source for milk, but I was ridiculed because one of the links didn't sell milk, despite the fact that I only did a quick search for ethical dairy.