RaverDrew said:I'm not just having a pop at you, I've been doing it to everyone recently.
I think I'm turning into a grumpy old man.
Ok, cos i was starting to take it personally
Military insider reveals 9/11 stand-down!
- Thread starter Jazzz
- Start date
Ok, cos i was starting to take it personally
kyser_soze said:
yep. Any vague attempt on my part to try and consider the inevitable elements of bullshit in the official account get blocked by the conspiraloon stuff. It does the government's work for them
Another factor - this is often the case - is that it's because he is no longer with the military that he feels free enough to speak. If he was still with the military, he would certainly lose his job and pension etc, maybe be court-martialled too, I don't know... all those who are still in the military would have a much tougher time whistle-blowing. However,
"Mr Chavez has since been informed that the computer company he now works for, as information security manager, has been receiving threatening phone calls demanding his dismissal. Mr Chavez is another example of someone who is bravely putting his career, reputation and life on the line to get the truth out about the 9/11 cover up."
"Mr Chavez has since been informed that the computer company he now works for, as information security manager, has been receiving threatening phone calls demanding his dismissal. Mr Chavez is another example of someone who is bravely putting his career, reputation and life on the line to get the truth out about the 9/11 cover up."
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Is the company he's working for prepared to go on record with that? Have they taken any kind of legal steps to address this? Has he signed any legally binding documents asserting his testimony, or filed corroborative documentation with a lawyer? You need to give more than an unsourced quotation!
I've met real whistleblowers before Jazz, and the one thing they are most concerned with is supporting all the claims and allegations they make - supplying evidence of meetings, minutes, phone records, invoices...all the things that make up the paper and electronic trails, the money trail (which was how Nixon was caught out at Watergate), the small and little people that make genuine cover-ups and conspiracies function.
Oh, and one last thing:
Not in the UK I haven't, but I know plenty of people who have and who complain that the biggest obstacles are either not enough personnel to deal with the enquiries, or the old Whitehall reaction to anyone asking for information about government!
And given that this is in the US, I'd suggest you talk to a certain Noam Chomsky about how good America's FOIA is, since one of the reasons his work is so unassailable is because ALL the government docs he uses are REAL.
I've met real whistleblowers before Jazz, and the one thing they are most concerned with is supporting all the claims and allegations they make - supplying evidence of meetings, minutes, phone records, invoices...all the things that make up the paper and electronic trails, the money trail (which was how Nixon was caught out at Watergate), the small and little people that make genuine cover-ups and conspiracies function.
Oh, and one last thing:
Not in the UK I haven't, but I know plenty of people who have and who complain that the biggest obstacles are either not enough personnel to deal with the enquiries, or the old Whitehall reaction to anyone asking for information about government!
And given that this is in the US, I'd suggest you talk to a certain Noam Chomsky about how good America's FOIA is, since one of the reasons his work is so unassailable is because ALL the government docs he uses are REAL.
Ain't that the word. Jazzz doesn't seem to realise what an unwitting asset he and his ilk are to BushBlairDubversion said:yep. Any vague attempt on my part to try and consider the inevitable elements of bullshit in the official account get blocked by the conspiraloon stuff. It does the government's work for them
Check out the Conspiracy Theories forum on James Randi's website, there'a a whole thread there showing how parts of the guys record have beeen doctored. You can clearly see where they have cut and pasted parts and moved them around. I would post the enlarged images up here showing the faked bits, but can I find how to crop an image in Illustrator, can I bugger.
editor
hiraethified
This thread makes for very interesting reading: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64837
Several posters seem to have provided compelling evidence of tampering in Chavez's military record which also claims he has a '"Expert Marksman" qualification.
Apparently that doesn't even exist!
What do you think Jazzz?
Several posters seem to have provided compelling evidence of tampering in Chavez's military record which also claims he has a '"Expert Marksman" qualification.
Apparently that doesn't even exist!
What do you think Jazzz?
editor
hiraethified
Chavez has now flounced off that forum. Here's part of his flouncing message. I've emphasised the interesting parts:
I'm sorry, but the language used in the OP by this man gives me good cause to disbelieve that this is bona fide.
It basically follows a genre, as given away on the first line where he tells his listeners/readers 'not only that.... but...'.
He's out to persuade others of his message, and of his worthiness as the messenger. Not a good thing to do if you have truth and reality on your side. Just tell the story; if you're trying to sell it, invariably there's something wrong...
It basically follows a genre, as given away on the first line where he tells his listeners/readers 'not only that.... but...'.
He's out to persuade others of his message, and of his worthiness as the messenger. Not a good thing to do if you have truth and reality on your side. Just tell the story; if you're trying to sell it, invariably there's something wrong...
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Jesus, have you seen the language used in some of those posts? Some of the egos on those sites are incredible...especially Alfons, who appears to see him'herself as a leading light in the 'movement'...
fela - it was when he started talking about 'turning to a buddy who said 'That's a controlled demolition' that it started to smell for me; too many 'buttons' being pressed.
fela - it was when he started talking about 'turning to a buddy who said 'That's a controlled demolition' that it started to smell for me; too many 'buttons' being pressed.
Notice how others have had to do your own basic checking for you again? After all these years I'd have thought you'd have the pattern noticed by now.Jazzz said:Oh dear, does look like he's dodgy. Don't know what he thought he was doing. Shame.
Why don't you try doing it yourself sometime, just for the novelty value like.
editor
hiraethified
In his never-ending desperation to believe any old conspiraloon shit posted up on the internet, Jazzz makes a total and utter cock himself once again.Jazzz said:
Why the fuck can't you research anything first?
You've gone beyond a laughing stock recently mate. I mean, no-one here's is going to forget your citing fantasy sci-fi holographic planes from a make-believe book set in 2025 as proof of a WTC conspiracy, and then there's all the other lunatic shit you've posted here.
Get a grip for fuck's sake.
to be fair, ed, this is about the first time i've seen Jazz put his hand up to being wrong, so i think rather than pouring scorn, we should give him props for not trying to wriggle out of it. It might be the start of something beautiful 
editor
hiraethified
The problem is that he starts from a position of absolute belief in any dubiously sourced claim (e.g. "Military insider reveals 9/11 stand-down!") and then relies on people to research his idiotic stories for him.Dubversion said:to be fair, ed, this is about the first time i've seen Jazz put his hand up to being wrong, so i think rather than pouring scorn, we should give him props for not trying to wriggle out of it. It might be the start of something beautiful
But if people here can't be bothered to keep on correcting his nutjob stories (and Lord knows it's a tiresome business), then urban would end up being used by the conspiraloons to promote and propagate their weird fantasies.
And I don't want that, thanks.
don't misunderstand me, i'm all for correcting him. I just reckon the fact that for once he hasn't squirmed and wriggled is progress
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
This thread is really very funny indeed.
editor
hiraethified
Yeah, but imagine if people hadn't bothered to research the 'facts' and forced him to admit that he was talking utter bollocks?!Dubversion said:
Because that's the way it works with Jazzz and his "truth-seeking" chums: even the wildest, evidence-untroubled, incredible yarns are pronounced as 'fact', no matter how dubious the source - no need for corroborating credible evidence!
I kinda hoped that he would have learnt from his endless humiliations here to exercise caution in his quest for the truth, but it seems his desperation to find a conspiracy means that we're going to have to put up with yet more of his bollocks.
Jazz actually held his hand up last week too, after the last thread he posted turned out to be a load of rubbish:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=178296&page=2
Why don't you check things out and use some critical thought before you post?
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=178296&page=2
Why don't you check things out and use some critical thought before you post?
Similar threads
- Locked
