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Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead

ItWillNeverWork said:
No. I'm just trying to lay some foundations for the conversation. To see if we are even on the same page here. To find out if a conversation will be at all productive.

To answer my own question, to convince me that politics rather than religion is the main motivation, I'd need a convincing explanation of (1) why ISIS would lie about their motivations, (2) why suicide bombers blow themselves up instead of planting a bomb and moving to a safe distance, (3) why there are rarely any demands attached to these attacks.

All of these indicate to me that the politics is second-place to religious fanaticism, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.
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Because it's a political act.
 
The39thStep said:
no comment on the content just the brand?
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Source, not brand. Nothing in that article is referenced so you have to believe the source, which in this case is an apparantly non conspiraloonery NGO run by a conspiraloon (9/11 inside job, beslan massacre CIA job etc). My eyebrow was raised by the phrase towards the start of the article which said the bombers bank card was "conveniently" found in his back pocket, and was expecting it to go full false flag conspiraloon but it didn't. Nonetheless I would like to read all that (with references preferably) from a source that I thought more reliable than this one, which I don't remember coming across before, but elbows clearly does.
 
The39thStep said:
no comment on the content just the brand?
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It's the usual mix of stuff the source site is notorious for. In this case plenty of it is based on some truth, some of it is distorted by use of language and labels and sometimes there will be outright fabrications thrown into the mix. Unless that network has changed recently, what you will get from them is the sort of 'anti-imperialism' that does not see fit to extend its critique to the likes of Russia, Gaddafi or Assad. As such it often takes far more than one article to see the nature of it's bias, and I spent way too much time on this sort of shit back when I was highly active on u75 - not going to waste my time to the same extent these days, especially when I mostly gave up talking about Libya on u75 years ago when the number of people who wanted to discuss the detail dwindled to barely a handful.

I will try to get into some specifics regarding this case when I have time today because despite what I just said I do sometimes get the urge to try to revitalise Libya discussions here but more fool me if I invest much time in it with little response.
 
An obvious distortion in the article is where it says Belhadj and al-Hatari created the FSA in Syria. They set some stuff up in Syria but the idea they created the FSA is way more than a stretch and the timescales dont fit.

Reading the wikipedia articles for Belhadj and al-Hatari is a much better idea.
 
I mean I can understand why the article might be held up as a beacon of light, especially by those for who may otherwise have been unaware of Belhadj's links with Qatar and with Abedi's career path. Fine, use it as a source of tip-offs for people and themes to explore the detail of elsewhere, but beware the slippery oversimplifications and distortions and the agenda of the source.
 
RD2003 said:
Hate crimes are up because people are saying stuff on a thread on here.
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Interestingly enough hate crime in Manchester doubled the day after the incident( due to the bombing rather than comments on here) ,albeit to a figure less than those injured in the bombing. My son is manager at a restraint at the Trafford Centre and had to deal with a situation in the morning after the bombing where a young staff member refused to serve some women in hijabs as he was genuinely worried and angry.
 
B.I.G said:
If people on urban are thinking people are blowing themselves up because they are muslim. No wonder the wider world is so full of hate.

I'm surprised some people on this thread haven't been banned for islamaphobia.
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Seeing as 99.6% of all suicide bombers are muslim there might be a link? But lets not that get in the way of banning people for Islamaphobia
 
Not women in hijabs? I'm always threatened by them too.

Its the way they never to do anything threatening that gets me. And they are always drunk and boorish.
 
The39thStep said:
Seeing as 99.6% of all suicide bombers are muslim there might be a link? But lets not that get in the way of banning people for Islamaphobia
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How many school shooters are male? Or how many bombers were Irish? Or how many are palestnian in Israel?

But don't worry. Jump to your racism.

You know. Cos your a cunt.
 
elbows said:
It's the usual mix of stuff the source site is notorious for. In this case plenty of it is based on some truth, some of it is distorted by use of language and labels and sometimes there will be outright fabrications thrown into the mix. Unless that network has changed recently, what you will get from them is the sort of 'anti-imperialism' that does not see fit to extend its critique to the likes of Russia, Gaddafi or Assad. As such it often takes far more than one article to see the nature of it's bias, and I spent way too much time on this sort of shit back when I was highly active on u75 - not going to waste my time to the same extent these days, especially when I mostly gave up talking about Libya on u75 years ago when the number of people who wanted to discuss the detail dwindled to barely a handful.

I will try to get into some specifics regarding this case when I have time today because despite what I just said I do sometimes get the urge to try to revitalise Libya discussions here but more fool me if I invest much time in it with little response.
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Fair enough. So in this particular article most of it is true?
 
B.I.G said:
If people on urban are thinking people are blowing themselves up because they are muslim. No wonder the wider world is so full of hate.

I'm surprised some people on this thread haven't been banned for islamaphobia.
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You're right. Maybe he blew himself up because he was a United fan.
 
B.I.G said:
People never do any violence in the name of a football club

So you are being ridiculous.
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Yeah, but maybe it actually was because he was a United fan. You know, seeing as it can't have been because he was Muslim.
 
Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race; religion or perceived religion; sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation; disability or perceived disability and any crime motivated by hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender."
 
B.I.G said:
Not women in hijabs? I'm always threatened by them too.

Its the way they never to do anything threatening that gets me. And they are always drunk and boorish.
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He's a kid in Manchester who works in a large shopping centre which is seen as a high risk target.It was the day after the bombing.He was scared , scared to go to work and scared at work. being scared can sometimes be illogical. I mentioned it as I found it interesting and how my son had to deal with it.There were others who rang in sick.
 
The39thStep said:
He's a kid in Manchester who works in a large shopping centre which is seen as a high risk target.It was the day after the bombing.He was scared , scared to go to work and scared at work. being scared can sometimes be illogical. I mentioned it as I found it interesting and how my son had to deal with it.There were others who rang in sick.
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Its not illogical. Its prejudice.

Calling in sick because youbare afraid you might get blown up its not the same as refusing to serve some women in their hijabs. Was he afraid that the drinks might be used as a weapon?
 
B.I.G said:
What part of being religious motivated him?
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It's already been covered. In my opinion (which is apparently widely shared for some reason, and by no means only by racists) because he'd come to believe in a certain interpretation of the Islamic scriptures. Same as the other perpetrators of such atrocities the world over.

But maybe it was because he was a United fan.
 
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