Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead

[kebabking]

The big, huge, unforgivable mistake GMFR made was in not making a new plan when it became obvious that Plan A wasn't working - shit goes wrong all the time and plans turn to shit, that's the reality of dealing with any fluid situation, but we pay senior people to make decisions and to try and cope when what we thought would work doesn't.

I simply don't understand how a senior Fire Officer could be happy with not being in contact with his opposite numbers while an event of this nature is obviously ongoing - sitting around and doing force generation for 10 minutes having got a 'wait, out' is one thing, but two fucking hours? Absolutely astonishing.

The original plan was solid - when you have an active shooter scenario, which is what was originally thought, the last thing you want is fire, ambulance and plod steaming in from every direction adding to the confusion and worse, ending up getting shot and thereby reducing your ability to respond, but the Comms plan didn't work, and GMFR had no lost-Comms procedure, and worse, didn't seem to think they needed one.

Frightening.

 

[A380]

The big, huge, unforgivable mistake GMFR made was in not making a new plan when it became obvious that Plan A wasn't working - shit goes wrong all the time and plans turn to shit, that's the reality of dealing with any fluid situation, but we pay senior people to make decisions and to try and cope when what we thought would work doesn't.

I simply don't understand how a senior Fire Officer could be happy with not being in contact with his opposite numbers while an event of this nature is obviously ongoing - sitting around and doing force generation for 10 minutes having got a 'wait, out' is one thing, but two fucking hours? Absolutely astonishing.

The original plan was solid - when you have an active shooter scenario, which is what was originally thought, the last thing you want is fire, ambulance and plod steaming in from every direction adding to the confusion and worse, ending up getting shot and thereby reducing your ability to respond, but the Comms plan didn't work, and GMFR had no lost-Comms procedure, and worse, didn't seem to think they needed one.

Frightening.

Yes, it should be a cyclical proces against the six elements of the Joint Decision Model (a bit similar to the Seven Questions) . Fairly early on GMP and NWAS commander’s changed their assessment to’probably not an active shooter’. (But they didn’t know for sure which shows the qualities of the NWAS staff, most of whom didn’t have the full ballistic protection that police firearms and ambulance HART have. And also a lot of bobbies with just their normal vests and nothing more.)

But you have to keep spinning the model. Constantly.

Also co-location of commanders at each level is absolutely key and also should be bread and butter. Fire service even invented and use a specific command role to assist with exactly this kind of incident. National Incident Liaison Officers (NILOs).

And everyone always jokes about comms but Airwave, though knocking on a bit, is still pretty good for voice comms. It’s the main comms system for police and ambulance. Fire commanders as individuals and all pumps have it, and there are dedicated multi agency command talkgroups exactly for this kind of event. And I wouldn’t be surprised if lots of GMFRS people were in fact on those talkgroups on the night. ( Fire use airwave for dispatch and distance and separate fire ground radios for Local command).

All this stuff is there and used daily. And was used by GMP/NWAS and other interesting/interested parties on the night.

But if the commander at the top doesn’t follow doctrine then it all falls to pieces.

 

[likesfish]

You really need firefighters too follow orders and trust their leadership peoples whose job is to run into burning buildings have to trust their leadership if they stay wait it’s too dangerous.

 

[RainbowTown]

Just devastating and grim. No other words can really describe this. RIP to those that died and those who were failed.

Manchester Arena victim John Atkinson could have survived attack

Emergency chiefs say they are "truly sorry" for failings that prevented John Atkinson's survival.

www.bbc.co.uk

Two victims of Manchester bombing COULD have been saved, report finds

Families bereaved by the Manchester Arena bombing blasted emergency services after a report found two of those who died could of survived with better treatment

www.dailymail.co.uk

LIVE: Manchester Arena bombing emergency services report

The second volume of the inquiry report will be published today, detailing the response of police, ambulance crews and firefighters

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[Sasaferrato]

Just devastating and grim. No other words can really describe this. RIP to those that died and those who were failed.

Manchester Arena victim John Atkinson could have survived attack

Emergency chiefs say they are "truly sorry" for failings that prevented John Atkinson's survival.

www.bbc.co.uk

Two victims of Manchester bombing COULD have been saved, report finds

Families bereaved by the Manchester Arena bombing blasted emergency services after a report found two of those who died could of survived with better treatment

www.dailymail.co.uk

LIVE: Manchester Arena bombing emergency services report

The second volume of the inquiry report will be published today, detailing the response of police, ambulance crews and firefighters

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

The Chief Constable was on the news earlier. We made mistakes, unacceptable, lessons learned blah blah. Not however 'I have tendered my resignation'.

 

[kebabking]

The Chief Constable was on the news earlier. We made mistakes, unacceptable, lessons learned blah blah. Not however 'I have tendered my resignation'.

He wasn't the Chief Constable at the time, and he hadn't been in GMP before he became CC.

Andy Burnham was Mayor of GM, but had only been in post a couple of months - arguable what effective impact he could have had, but they had staged an ex in the months before the attack that had marked inter-agency communications as abysmal.

 

[sim667]

I did a multi agency exercise at work the other day, with the focus being communication. I can confirm, communication is still ropey

 

[teqniq]

This promises to be a proper can of worms. Going to be heard by The Investigatory Powers Tribunal so maybe we will not actually get know much of the actual detail:

Manchester Arena bombing survivors start legal action against MI5

Lawyers representing more than 250 people caught up in the May 2017 atrocity have lodged a group claim against the intelligence agency

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[dylanredefined]

I just did my SIA badge. They showed the pre-explosion CCTV so many chances to stop him weren't taken. Cops went on extra long breaks security guards' radios didn't work and one didn't challenge him as he didn't want to seem racist.

 

[T & P]

I'm not a 'lock them in and throw away the key' type of person at all, but nutjob conspiracy theorists of this type are odious scum, and I wish this piece of shit would see the inside of a jail cell for a good spell for spreading such damaging garbage. Though though sadly I don't think this case would involve custodial sentencing.

Manchester Arena bomb survivors win conspiracy harassment case

Survivors of the Manchester Arena bomb win a case against a man who claimed no-one was injured.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I'm not a 'lock them in and throw away the key' type of person at all, but nutjob conspiracy theorists of this type are odious scum, and I wish this piece of shit would see the inside of a jail cell for a good spell for spreading such damaging garbage. Though though sadly I don't think this case would involve custodial sentencing.

Manchester Arena bomb survivors win conspiracy harassment case

Survivors of the Manchester Arena bomb win a case against a man who claimed no-one was injured.

www.bbc.co.uk

No unfortunately not, it's a civil case isn't it so presumably a financial award. Maybe might prompt the police to investigate though.

Hard to find the words for these sorts of people isn't it.

 

[Lotte]

What is this absolute twat hoping to gain by saying nobody was hurt in the bombing?

 

[Cloo]

What a total piece of shit. And how fucking stupid to imagine some could 'fake' such an incident.

 

[A380]

This is the kind of person the word ‘cunt’ shoukd be reserved for…

 

[Ax^]

what sort of ghoul start harassing the victims because he not show pictures of the aftermath...

should be locked up for a good stretch