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Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead

killer b said:
I went last week - it had a very powerful effect.
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Yes it does. There's a kind of hush that isn't a hush, and the perfume of flowers everywhere. It's oppressive and sad, in many ways, but I noticed the hi-vizzed volunteers arranging the floral tributes, and they were handling the flowers with such respect and care it made me feel glad of good people. And reading the cards what struck me were the dedications from people in other countries; the impact of this has gone far and wide, it's weird to remember that when you're living here in the middle of it all.
 
Yes, it is weird to think of how much support is coming from outside the UK. I got a better sense of that with the One Love thing. I didn't like any of it from a musical perspective but loved it otherwise.
 
Wookey said:
Yes it does. There's a kind of hush that isn't a hush, and the perfume of flowers everywhere. It's oppressive and sad, in many ways, but I noticed the hi-vizzed volunteers arranging the floral tributes, and they were handling the flowers with such respect and care it made me feel glad of good people. And reading the cards what struck me were the dedications from people in other countries; the impact of this has gone far and wide, it's weird to remember that when you're living here in the middle of it all.
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The hush thing was the key thing for me - a reflective and sombre feeling, with people just looking at the sea of flowers and thinking their own private thoughts. Very moving.

I went back last weekend and there was a bagpipe band playing in full kilt and bearskin garb who were great.
 
Bumped because the official report in to the response to the bombing has been released. Not pleasant reading for the fire brigade's higher-ups, nor Vodafone, but perhaps most for whoever in the Government went on the record claiming that there was no need for Leveson 2 because the media had learned their lesson:

As well as representatives from the emergency services, the council and the Arena, 200 members of the public affected by the attack on 22 May were interviewed by Kerslake’s team, including family and friends of 11 of the 22 people who died.

Many complained about being “hounded” and “bombarded” by the media. Some said photographers took “sneaky” pictures through a window when they were being told their loved ones had died.

At one hospital, a reporter sent a tin of biscuits for staff containing a note offering £2,000 for information. Several people told of the physical presence of crews outside their homes. One mentioned the forceful attempt by a reporter to gain access through their front door by ramming a foot in the doorway.

The child of one family was given condolences on the doorstep before official notification of the death of her mother. Another family told how their child was stopped by journalists while making their way to school.

There were at least two examples of impersonation, said Kerslake. One respondent said they talked to someone pretending to be a bereavement nurse; another said journalists phoned the hospital pretending to be from the police.

“To have experienced such intrusive and overbearing behaviour at a time of such enormous vulnerability seemed to us to be completely and utterly unacceptable,” Kerslake writes. He asks the Independent Press Standards Organisation (Ipso) to review the operation of its code and consider developing a new code specifically to cover similar events in future.
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:mad:
 
agricola said:
Bumped because the official report in to the response to the bombing has been released. Not pleasant reading for the fire brigade's higher-ups, nor Vodafone, but perhaps most for whoever in the Government went on the record claiming that there was no need for Leveson 2 because the media had learned their lesson:



:mad:
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The press, by and large are utter scum. They always have been, and unless you close all news outlets, always will be.

Every time an 'utter cunts' survey is done, the press are there, along with solicitors, estate agents, used car salesmen etc.
 
agricola said:
Bumped because the official report in to the response to the bombing has been released. Not pleasant reading for the fire brigade's higher-ups
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Just had a big report about this on Northwest Tonight. The head of the fire service was in a car and apparently couldn't get through to the police command to get updates which is why he ordered the fire crews to stay out and instead stage at a fire station 3 miles east of the arena. Fire HQ is to the west of Manchester and the Police HQ to the east and no one from the fire service was at, or sent to, police HQ.

Two weeks before the arena attack there was a terror attack exercise at the Trafford Centre where lack of communication between the emergency services was shown to be a serious problem.

I find it really surprising that apparently it wasn't possible for the head of the fire service to get updated information for two hours after a terror attack. Apparently now they have a shared radio channel so it doesn't happen again
 
Sasaferrato said:
The press, by and large are utter scum. They always have been, and unless you close all news outlets, always will be.

Every time an 'utter cunts' survey is done, the press are there, along with solicitors, estate agents, used car salesmen etc.
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My first job was as a trainee reporter. This sort of stuff is one of the reasons I left. There is real pressure to do the dreaded "death knock" :(
 
Sasaferrato said:
The press, by and large are utter scum. They always have been, and unless you close all news outlets, always will be.
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That's a sweeping statement, I spent years in the local newspaper sector, and I wouldn't describe any of the reporters, at the various companies I worked for, as scum, far from it.

The problem tends to be with the nationals, and perhaps some larger regional dailies, but in this case both the Manchester Evening News & other local papers were praised.

A report on the aftermath of the Manchester Arena bombing has highlighted the “sympathetic reporting” of local and regional newspapers while criticising other media for press intrusion.
---
In its report, published today, the panel says it was “shocked and dismayed” by the level of press intrusion in some cases, and calls for the Independent Press Standards Organisation to review its code of conduct on the reporting of such incidents.

But the report, written by former head of the civil service Lord Kerslake, also singled out the Manchester Evening News and other local newspapers for their “sympathetic” coverage of the incident.
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One family member affected by the tragedy said: “The information in the Manchester Evening News was correct but when national Press picked it up, it would change.” Another described their local press as “amazing”.

The report stated: “A number of families spoke in praise of sympathetic reporting by the Manchester Evening News and other papers local to the bereaved.”

MEN editor-in-chief Rob Irvine said: “Lord Kerslake’s report confirms that there is a positive role that the press can play in communicating on behalf of families and in fundraising.

“It mentions that the MEN raised a million pounds for the emergency appeal in 24 hours.The final total raised was £2.5 million which was included in the We Love Manchester Emergency Fund of £20m that is helping the bereaved and those most affected.”
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Kerslake report praises MEN while slating other media - Journalism News from HoldtheFrontPage
 
cupid_stunt said:
That's a sweeping statement, I spent years in the local newspaper sector, and I wouldn't describe any of the reporters, at the various companies I worked for, as scum, far from it.

The problem tends to be with the nationals, and perhaps some larger regional dailies, but in this case both the Manchester Evening News & other local papers were praised.





Kerslake report praises MEN while slating other media - Journalism News from HoldtheFrontPage
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Fair enough, in this instance, I was a tad harsh.
 
Sadly and inevitably, certain elements of the press come into their own on occasions like this, like vultures circling the bloodied scene below, just ready to swoop and devour on the rich pickings that - in their eyes, at least - is there for the taking. Decency and dignity for the victims doesn't even stand a chance as they feed upon them.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
Keeping that £100K/PA pension away from any potential disciplinary measures...
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I doubt there would have been any (he did after all follow the guidance he was given, though perhaps physically sending someone to GMP HQ might have avoided an awful lot of the delay) but when someone wants to be seen as one of those driving-through-change / modernizing "leaders" that so many of us are afflicted with nowadays it is probably impossible to continue after something like this.

RainbowTown said:
No doubt suffering from 'stress' also.
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I appreciate this is a common viewpoint nowadays, but until someone goes through something like this then its very difficult to comment on how stressful it can be even some distance from the event. I have no idea what his experience was like, but there will have been a lot of people in the emergency services who will have been messed up by this; not just the people who went to the scene and treated the injured but the staff who had to to take calls from the witnesses, the injured and the bereaved, and the people who had to co-ordinate a safe response when not fully knowing what was going on.

The amount of responsibility that these events place on what are (in organizational terms) quite junior members of staff (and in some cases individuals like the GMP force duty Inspector) is astonishing.
 
agricola said:
I doubt there would have been any (he did after all follow the guidance he was given, though perhaps physically sending someone to GMP HQ might have avoided an awful lot of the delay) but when someone wants to be seen as one of those driving-through-change / modernizing "leaders" that so many of us are afflicted with nowadays it is probably impossible to continue after something like this.



I appreciate this is a common viewpoint nowadays, but until someone goes through something like this then its very difficult to comment on how stressful it can be even some distance from the event. I have no idea what his experience was like, but there will have been a lot of people in the emergency services who will have been messed up by this; not just the people who went to the scene and treated the injured but the staff who had to to take calls from the witnesses, the injured and the bereaved, and the people who had to co-ordinate a safe response when not fully knowing what was going on.

The amount of responsibility that these events place on what are (in organizational terms) quite junior members of staff (and in some cases individuals like the GMP force duty Inspector) is astonishing.
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Like most people, I have absolute and total respect and admiration for all those who attended the scene that night and helped and assisted the dying, the injured and those immediately affected by this atrocity. They deserve any support they may've needed in terms of counselling for any stress related issues that may have resulted from it.

However, I don't have much sympathy, to be honest, for the Chief Fire Officer though - who's now suddenly decided to 'retire' on a very large pension, straight after this report has published and whichhighlighted the failings which - in part - happened on his watch.
 
RainbowTown said:
Like most people, I have absolute and total respect and admiration for all those who attended the scene that night and helped and assisted the dying, the injured and those immediately affected by this atrocity. They deserve any support they may've needed in terms of counselling for any stress related issues that may have resulted from it.

However, I don't have much sympathy, to be honest, for the Chief Fire Officer though - who's now suddenly decided to 'retire' on a very large pension, straight after this report has published and whichhighlighted the failings which - in part - happened on his watch.
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Small point but he went in September. Obviously he knew what was coming though
 
RainbowTown said:
Like most people, I have absolute and total respect and admiration for all those who attended the scene that night and helped and assisted the dying, the injured and those immediately affected by this atrocity. They deserve any support they may've needed in terms of counselling for any stress related issues that may have resulted from it.

However, I don't have much sympathy, to be honest, for the Chief Fire Officer though - who's now suddenly decided to 'retire' on a very large pension, straight after this report has published and whichhighlighted the failings which - in part - happened on his watch.
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There was a time, within my lifetime, when people who had fucked up fell on their sword. Not now.
 
RainbowTown said:
Like most people, I have absolute and total respect and admiration for all those who attended the scene that night and helped and assisted the dying, the injured and those immediately affected by this atrocity. They deserve any support they may've needed in terms of counselling for any stress related issues that may have resulted from it.

However, I don't have much sympathy, to be honest, for the Chief Fire Officer though - who's now suddenly decided to 'retire' on a very large pension, straight after this report has published and whichhighlighted the failings which - in part - happened on his watch.
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I wasn't asking for sympathy for him, I was trying to point out that its very difficult to appreciate the stress caused by this sort of thing unless you have gone through something similar and that it goes far further than just the people who attend the scene.
 
binka said:
Small point but he went in September. Obviously he knew what was coming though
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He knew on the night. It was the closest to a mutiny a fire service has been in modern times.

Fortunately it’s fairly likely, predominantly due to the work of North West Amulance Service (NWAS) staff and quick robust decision making by the police and ambulance commanders at all three levels, that the lack of firefighters didn’t cost lives. They would have provided some additional capacity and capability but GMP turned the whole scene warm really quickly and NWAS covered all the casualties. NWAS could do that because of the mutual aid that came in from other trusts to keep business as usual and a reserve across the city. I just say this in case family and friends are reading.

It’s why you have drills and use them.
 
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It’s also not a cultural failure across the fire service. Some of the decisions made at Grenfell, right from Dany Cotton down, were pretty gutsy ( there is public facing stuff on this) but we need to wait for that part of the Grenfell review.
 
there's not doing a 9/11 where most of the firefighters died for no good reason but within half an hour it was obvious the police and ambulance had gone in and not been killed so the fire service headshed fucked up.
 
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